Posted by diarm (194.125.205.14) on November 30, 2002 at 09:16:41:
In Reply to: Re: that's dumb posted by Matches (66.219.150.51) on November 29, 2002 at 13:14:10:
> You're missing the point.
I don't think so. I think you're twisting and conflating my argument to make it face your preferred agenda. That's cool, I do it all the time. But that agenda is pretty much a store-bought generic form of libertarianism. Which sucks. I'd much prefer you to twist and distort my arguments into a Matches-original philosophy. Or if not, I hope you pay the royalties to the ARI.
> Cars themselves endanger the lives of others, so do giant semi-trucks.
Remember, we're dealing with two separate issues here, which you are trying to conflate into one.
1. Should SUV use be banned or penalized.
2. Are SUV owners assholes.
In relation to 2, you draw a fake equality between car drivers, real truck drivers and SUV owners.
Car are less dangerous than SUVs. 99% of SUV drivers drive SUVs not for any practical reason, but because they merely want to. They endanger the lives of other drivers (collisions) and the lives of their own children (rollovers) by this decision.
In my book, a person who makes a special effort to buy an overpriced machine that makes her kids less safe than a regular machine is an asshole.
> Sure, they're dangerous. But they're also nice.
Playing Russian Roulette is "nice" too. It's a great game when you don't lose.
Consider two parents. One allows his kid to play Russian Roulette.
"How can you do that? He might die!"
"Hey man, you let your kid play football. Kids break their necks every year playing that game. What's the difference?"
> And we all have choices to make regarding whether or not some activity is too dangerous to try. But you act as if the things are intrinsically evil, and your whole mentality is woefully backwards. It's the same mentality that says "McDonalds is evil because they make us and our kids fat" and it's the same mentality that had a lot of people saying "Alcohol is evil"?
> Bottom line is it's not your place to arbitrarily decide what choices people should be allowed to make. And it IS arbitrary. Should drinking be criminalized because sometimes people get stupid as a result and get in fights or go out driving? I'd take a highway full of SUVs over a virtually empty one with a drunk in a Toyota Prius. We don't make drinking illegal because it does not actively endanger the lives of others. But if a drunk loses control and punches someone out, THAT'S wrong. But of course, if you really don't like drunks and are afriad of catching their wrath, the ultimate solution is not to go out to bars, where most hang out. Similarly, if you really don't like SUVs and are afraid of being on the road with them, take the freaking bus or ride your bike, just like you all say should happen.
> That's another thing...if all the people who pray and worship Holy Mother Earth would actally do the things they say EVERYBODY else should be doing, I'd have no problem. But it's their trying to force their will on everyone else that irritates me. It's all totally backwards.
> > > But it's mob rule nowadays and if enough angry people bitch and moan about something then suddenly it's evil. It's the great satan.
> > If mob rule leads to less deaths on the road then yay for mob rule.
> > > These haters and their tone seriously sound like they might as well be saying "Destroy the infidel. You shall know them, for they drive sport utility vehicles."
> > Uh huh.
> > >
> > > > Far as I can tell, people buy SUVs for the same reason they buy handguns and gobble steroids: to enjoy the illusion of power.
> > > > It's almost always the case that the person is covering up for a major weakness.
> > > > SUVs are designed to be intimidating to other drivers.
> > > > Buying an SUV is saying to the world "I'm so insecure I'm willing to pay $20,000 more than I need to for the benefit of intimidating nervous motorists." Another, better way is "I'm an asshole."
> > > > If a guy came into work every day carrying a spear, because he likes intimidating those around him, would YOU like him? It's the same principle: be a pushy jerk, be hated. There's no mystery.