Posted by Matches (66.219.150.51) on November 30, 2002 at 16:24:04:
In Reply to: Re: that's dumb posted by diarm (194.125.205.14) on November 30, 2002 at 09:16:41:
> > You're missing the point.
> I don't think so. I think you're twisting and conflating my argument to make it face your preferred agenda. That's cool, I do it all the time. But that agenda is pretty much a store-bought generic form of libertarianism. Which sucks. I'd much prefer you to twist and distort my arguments into a Matches-original philosophy. Or if not, I hope you pay the royalties to the ARI.
Don't be petulant. It doesn't make sense to say that since the ideals I espouse are based on the ideals of someone else, that they are therefore somehow invalid or unworthy of mention. To say so is ridiculous. Of course, we've been here billions of times before, and all you've ever resorted to is saying "libertarianism sucks." Even when you say more than just those words, you've never really gotten beyond that. So I find it more than acceptable for me so respond and say "statism sucks" or "environmentalism sucks." We never get anywhere so..it's always a waste of time.
> > Cars themselves endanger the lives of others, so do giant semi-trucks.
> Remember, we're dealing with two separate issues here, which you are trying to conflate into one.
> 1. Should SUV use be banned or penalized.
> 2. Are SUV owners assholes.
> In relation to 2, you draw a fake equality between car drivers, real truck drivers and SUV owners.
> Car are less dangerous than SUVs. 99% of SUV drivers drive SUVs not for any practical reason, but because they merely want to. They endanger the lives of other drivers (collisions) and the lives of their own children (rollovers) by this decision.
> In my book, a person who makes a special effort to buy an overpriced machine that makes her kids less safe than a regular machine is an asshole.
I didn't really try to conflate the two arguments into one. I couldn't care less who YOU think is an asshole or not. I guess the knowledge of what makes you consider someone an asshole DOES make it easier for me to determine whether or not YOU are an asshole, but that wasn't really what I was striving for.
> > Sure, they're dangerous. But they're also nice.
> Playing Russian Roulette is "nice" too. It's a great game when you don't lose.
> Consider two parents. One allows his kid to play Russian Roulette.
> "How can you do that? He might die!"
> "Hey man, you let your kid play football. Kids break their necks every year playing that game. What's the difference?"
You ignored the point. Here you seem to me making the argument "Since SUVs are more dangerous than cars they should be banned or penalized in some way" (I know you haven't explicitly said this but the venom of your remarks on the subject makes me assume this.) My point is - how is that any different than saying "Since playing real football is more dangerous than playing video-game football, then playing real football should be banned, or taxed heavily." ESSENTIALLY, (not just arbitrarily based on whatever whims you might have) the reason we don't ban football, even though kids have died playing it, is that football is FUN. We enjoy it. We know it's dangerous but playing it makes life more enjoyable.
It cracks me up the crusades some people take up for the simple sake of having an opinion and the perverse pleasure they get from being indignant.
That said, it DOES also crack me up that some people get some sort of perverse pleasure from driving around in a big old pickup truck or SUV... But that's all it does.. I find it amusing and vaguely disappointing. I don't think that the person is an asshole or that it should be banned...
If they're driving around in one of those in and have a tendency to wear a cowboy hat as well, then all bets are off - I consider them to be an asshole.
> > And we all have choices to make regarding whether or not some activity is too dangerous to try. But you act as if the things are intrinsically evil, and your whole mentality is woefully backwards. It's the same mentality that says "McDonalds is evil because they make us and our kids fat" and it's the same mentality that had a lot of people saying "Alcohol is evil"?
> > Bottom line is it's not your place to arbitrarily decide what choices people should be allowed to make. And it IS arbitrary. Should drinking be criminalized because sometimes people get stupid as a result and get in fights or go out driving? I'd take a highway full of SUVs over a virtually empty one with a drunk in a Toyota Prius. We don't make drinking illegal because it does not actively endanger the lives of others. But if a drunk loses control and punches someone out, THAT'S wrong. But of course, if you really don't like drunks and are afriad of catching their wrath, the ultimate solution is not to go out to bars, where most hang out. Similarly, if you really don't like SUVs and are afraid of being on the road with them, take the freaking bus or ride your bike, just like you all say should happen.
> > That's another thing...if all the people who pray and worship Holy Mother Earth would actally do the things they say EVERYBODY else should be doing, I'd have no problem. But it's their trying to force their will on everyone else that irritates me. It's all totally backwards.
> > > > But it's mob rule nowadays and if enough angry people bitch and moan about something then suddenly it's evil. It's the great satan.
> > > If mob rule leads to less deaths on the road then yay for mob rule.
> > > > These haters and their tone seriously sound like they might as well be saying "Destroy the infidel. You shall know them, for they drive sport utility vehicles."
> > > Uh huh.
> > > >
> > > > > Far as I can tell, people buy SUVs for the same reason they buy handguns and gobble steroids: to enjoy the illusion of power.
> > > > > It's almost always the case that the person is covering up for a major weakness.
> > > > > SUVs are designed to be intimidating to other drivers.
> > > > > Buying an SUV is saying to the world "I'm so insecure I'm willing to pay $20,000 more than I need to for the benefit of intimidating nervous motorists." Another, better way is "I'm an asshole."
> > > > > If a guy came into work every day carrying a spear, because he likes intimidating those around him, would YOU like him? It's the same principle: be a pushy jerk, be hated. There's no mystery.