Posted by Emily (68.13.144.194) on January 29, 2003 at 16:09:27:
In Reply to: To any vegans posted by Diarmuid (194.125.207.91) on January 28, 2003 at 09:09:23:
> But we know that meat-eaters like me and Bill Clinton are doing more to make that happen than all the vegans put together.
You're not getting very far either by telling someone that all they believe in and stand more isn't doing a goddamn thing, Dee. If YOU want to help us out you need to be a little more tactful. Not all vegans are militant bitches that need a slap in the face, albeit some are. Ack.
> That future will NOT come to pass without persuading the majority, and you never persuade majorities by calling them murderers.
I agree with you on this, that's why I've nevered called any of my meat-eating friends murderers. (Unless you're referring to my livejournal, which is my own personal journal and I can express my feelings in it without having to worry about retaliation) I never even bring up the fact that I'm vegan, but other people do. Other people, 99.9999999999% of the time initiate the conversation with me. If I'm going out to dinner with my friends I never say anything about what they're eating, but the vast majority of the time they say something about what I'm eating. I'm always very polite with them, and honest, and I answer their questions without making them feel guilty and heartless. I just tell them the facts and avoid the propaganda bullshit. I just don't think getting in people's faces works in this type of situation, and will just go to build the wall taller and thicker between us. By keeping the conversation open and non-threatening, THEY become more open. I also never go to protests or demonstrations or whatever...it just doesn't work and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I live my life by example, and it helps those around me see how easy it is to live a cruelty-free lifestyle.
In addition, I would say that I am DEFINITELY the one that gets the most slack when it comes to my eating habits. I take abuse from my family and get called a "PETA-freak" (even though I have nothing to do with PETA) when I'm just trying to go about eating my breakfast or something. I don't abuse people about what they eat, but damn have I been abused, lemme tell ya. Everything from people rolling their eyes at me when I pull out rice milk from the fridge, to having people get right up in my face and chew a mouthful of chicken in front of my nose (oh gross...). Keep in mind that I never say anything to my meat-eating friends, it's always initiated by them.
> It's time for you to face facts: this majority will only cease to tolerate the killing of animals AFTER they have ceased tolerating cruelty towards their own species.
Some pretty nifty people agree with you!
"As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together." -Isaac Bashevis Singer
"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace." -Albert Schweitzer
"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?" -George Bernard Shaw
"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields." -Leo Tolstoy
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" -Gandhi
> In reality though, all that's happening is more 99c double cheeseburgers. No drop in meat supply, just more poverty and infant mortality among the poor 3rd world herdsmen.
Actually, whether or not it's a phase, people in the U.S. are becoming more and more interested in healthy foods every year. I actually read awhile ago that organic food stocks, like Wild Oats or Whole Foods, are amongst the safest to invest in and, unlike many other stocks, have hardly waivered since 9/11 and continue to grow tremendously. And this wasn't even in any sort of propaganda literature...it was in some mainstream paper I can't think of now. I'll try to find it! (By the way, have you heard about McDonald's having to close a bunch of its stores recently?)
Organic foods, whole foods, etc, are linked with meat consumption in that when people begin purchasing these foods, reading the labels, going to the website on the label out of curiosity, seeing links and articles on that website regarding whole-foods cooking and living, and etc, eventually they're going to start seeing hoards of info about the harms of eating meat and animal products....which in turn, if they're interested enough, will finally take them to the factory farming information and the chain continues. With the introduction of organic foods into normal, mainstream supermarkets and restaurants, it's happening faster and faster nowadays.
> There's no plant-based food on earth as orgasmically delicious as a good T-bone and there never will be.
Actually, it repulses me now and even the thought of a cooked cow makes me sick to my stomach. I kid you not, and I kid myself not. You grow out of these things and only then can you realize how truly disgusting something like a cooked steak really is. It sounds whacko, but it's the absolute truth.
> As long as the message remains "save the animals NOW!!! oh yeah, and some people too if we have time, maybe..."
Actually, Veganism means respect for ALL life, not just the life of non-humans, Diarmuid! Most of my vegan friends are involved in human rights as well as animal rights campaigns. Most won't buy goods made in sweatshops, and on and on. Don't believe what the mainstream vegan propaganda sites say about us a lot of the time...they're run my mean people who forget that humans are animals too.