Posted by Flower Pagan (68.35.113.192) on January 29, 2003 at 21:14:01:
In Reply to: Re: To any vegans posted by Emily (68.13.144.194) on January 29, 2003 at 16:09:27:
If you want websites to research this topic about meat and vegetarianism, click on the link. Doing this research has put a lot on my mind. So, now we have Emily, Pork, Ferreri and Epoxy are all vegetarians, anybody else?
I hope to be added to that list. I feel encouraged by these people. Well, Oprah is my favorite vegetarian. :o)
Diarm: > > But we know that meat-eaters like me and Bill Clinton are doing more to make that happen than all the vegans put together.
Emily: > You're not getting very far either by telling someone that all they believe in and stand more isn't doing a goddamn thing, Dee. If YOU want to help us out you need to be a little more tactful. Not all vegans are militant bitches that need a slap in the face, albeit some are. Ack.
FP: That is true. Vegans are people with all different types of attitudes and dispositions, just like meat eaters, except the average vegetarian is healthier and look much younger, I think.
Diarm: > > That future will NOT come to pass without persuading the majority, and you never persuade majorities by calling them murderers.
>
Emily: > I agree with you on this, that's why I've nevered called any of my meat-eating friends murderers.
FP: I did not either. I did have a boyfriend who thought of me as a murderer during my almost 4 years of eating meat. I admit, I was more healthy when I was with him. He was functioning on the lower average level of his secure point at One, which made him a little high strung.
Emily: (Unless you're referring to my livejournal, which is my own personal journal and I can express my feelings in it without having to worry about retaliation) I never even bring up the fact that I'm vegan, but other people do. Other people, 99.9999999999% of the time initiate the conversation with me. If I'm going out to dinner with my friends I never say anything about what they're eating, but the vast majority of the time they say something about what I'm eating.
FP: Me too! When I was 17 about a year to a year to a year and a half before I became a vegetarian. I met some guy in the vocational school and when I walked with him to his place to sit and eat lunch, I have noticed that he never had any meat. I inquired about it and he told me it was called vegetarianism. I found out that he was Seventh-day Adventist, and I started to go and became Saturday vegetarian because I like to eat and hang out at church. Eventually, I lost the taste for meat out of my mouth and became a vegetarian about the age 18 or 19. I went through the tuna fish stage first.
Emily: I'm always very polite with them, and honest, and I answer their questions without making them feel guilty and heartless. I just tell them the facts and avoid the propaganda bullshit. I just don't think getting in people's faces works in this type of situation, and will just go to build the wall taller and thicker between us. By keeping the conversation open and non-threatening, THEY become more open. I also never go to protests or demonstrations or whatever...it just doesn't work and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I live my life by example, and it helps those around me see how easy it is to live a cruelty-free lifestyle.
FP: That was my experience too. Hey, I am a 9, how else could I have been? I always viewed my being a vegetarian is something that happened to my body and not something to crusade about. I just saw it as my way of life and the way of life of most Seventh-day Adventists. I did not need proganda, my looking so young spoke for vegetarianism. I admit, I had a more loving attitude when I was a vegetarian. Hmmm.... Interesting.
Emily: > In addition, I would say that I am DEFINITELY the one that gets the most slack when it comes to my eating habits. I take abuse from my family and get called a "PETA-freak" (even though I have nothing to do with PETA) when I'm just trying to go about eating my breakfast or something. I don't abuse people about what they eat, but damn have I been abused, lemme tell ya. Everything from people rolling their eyes at me when I pull out rice milk from the fridge, to having people get right up in my face and chew a mouthful of chicken in front of my nose (oh gross...). Keep in mind that I never say anything to my meat-eating friends, it's always initiated by them.
FP: When you mentioned PETA, I thought you were talking about Pita bread. ha, ha, ha. Hey, this bring back memories where people used to eat meat in front of me and tried to tempt me to eat meat. How I could be tempted if the taste of meat was gone out of my mouth? I did not became a vegetarian by making myself become one. It happened. My body has been trying to tell me that it does not want meat and dairy anymore, and I want to stop doing this to myself.
Diarm: > > It's time for you to face facts: this majority will only cease to tolerate the killing of animals AFTER they have ceased tolerating cruelty towards their own species.
Emily: > Some pretty nifty people agree with you!
Emily: > "As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together." -Isaac Bashevis Singer
Emily: > "Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace." -Albert Schweitzer
Emily: > "While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?" -George Bernard Shaw
Emily: > "As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields." -Leo Tolstoy
Emily: > "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" -Gandhi
FP: Thanks for these wise quotes.
>
Diarm: > > In reality though, all that's happening is more 99c double cheeseburgers. No drop in meat supply, just more poverty and infant mortality among the poor 3rd world herdsmen.
Emily: > Actually, whether or not it's a phase, people in the U.S. are becoming more and more interested in healthy foods every year. I actually read awhile ago that organic food stocks, like Wild Oats or Whole Foods, are amongst the safest to invest in and, unlike many other stocks, have hardly waivered since 9/11 and continue to grow tremendously. And this wasn't even in any sort of propaganda literature...it was in some mainstream paper I can't think of now. I'll try to find it! (By the way, have you heard about McDonald's having to close a bunch of its stores recently?)
FP: I am planning on shopping at Wild Oats more often after I get started. I may shop at Wal-mart to save money as much as possible. I am glad to see health food in the grocery stores because it is cheaper on the pocket and health food stores had to lower their prices too in some cases. Most vegetarians I knew were not into propaganda. It was just a way of life, especially in the church (Seventh-day Adventist) that taught me vegetarianism.
FP: How is Burger King is doing? I know their veggie burgers must have given them more customers. They don't fry their burgers which is a plus to many meat eaters, especially those who are concerned about their cholestrial and heart.
Emily: > Organic foods, whole foods, etc, are linked with meat consumption in that when people begin purchasing these foods, reading the labels, going to the website on the label out of curiosity, seeing links and articles on that website regarding whole-foods cooking and living, and etc, eventually they're going to start seeing hoards of info about the harms of eating meat and animal products....which in turn, if they're interested enough, will finally take them to the factory farming information and the chain continues. With the introduction of organic foods into normal, mainstream supermarkets and restaurants, it's happening faster and faster nowadays.
FP: I have seen this to be true. I have seen a drastic difference within one decade! Even medical diagnosis and education has opened the eyes of a lot of meat eaters. High blood pressure patients are known to give up pork. Mad Cow Disease probably made people think about is eating meat worth the risk. We had our first American victim died of it that she got from her trip to England a year before that. They show how she deteriated from a beautiful vibrant young woman, into a woman whose brain has turned against her body. It was a tregedy!! Meat is known to give disease and cancer.
Diarm: > > There's no plant-based food on earth as orgasmically delicious as a good T-bone and there never will be.
FP: Carob (Locust) is so good and Stevia is so sweet. Both are plants. Without the ingredients of death (fat and blood), the meat does not have flavor.
Emily: > Actually, it repulses me now and even the thought of a cooked cow makes me sick to my stomach. I kid you not, and I kid myself not. You grow out of these things and only then can you realize how truly disgusting something like a cooked steak really is. It sounds whacko, but it's the absolute truth.
FP: That is pretty graphic! I remember looking in the eyes of a turkey that lived next door to me when I lived in Florida, and I was going to the store and could not buy turkey for a while because of that turkey. He was a cutie with a blue head. He always came to the gate when I did my turkey call. LOL I can understand.
>
Diarm: > > As long as the message remains "save the animals NOW!!! oh yeah, and some people too if we have time, maybe..."
> Actually, Veganism means respect for ALL life, not just the life of non-humans, Diarmuid! Most of my vegan friends are involved in human rights as well as animal rights campaigns. Most won't buy goods made in sweatshops, and on and on. Don't believe what the mainstream vegan propaganda sites say about us a lot of the time...they're run my mean people who forget that humans are animals too.
FP: Diarm, being a vegetarian means to be healthy and youthful for a longer period of time. It is not just about not eating meat. It is a way of life that also includes drinking plenty of water, exercise, rest, etc...
It is a healthy way of life for me. Eating mean give you animal blood which makes you age and you are eating death. Jews drains the blood and fat from the meat. Vegetarianism means different things to different people. Not clones, individuals.
FP: That is good about them not buying food from sweat shops. I hope that silk company goes out of business or lost a lot of customers after Dateline aired that segment about children who were close to being slaves for the sake of captialists to profit on silk that they suffer over. I think the name of the company is called Nelli. Will you tell me how could I find out where to shop and where to not shop because I don't want to support slavery.
Newstart
N-nutrition
E-exercise
W-water
S-sunshine
T-temperance
A-air
R-rest
T-trust in divine powers
God's Plan
G-God's sunshine
O-Open Air
D-Daily exercise
S-Simply trust in God
P-Plenty of water
L-Lot's of rest
A-Always temperance
N-Nutrition