Posted by Diarm (194.125.172.205) on January 30, 2003 at 13:10:57:
In Reply to: Re: To any vegans posted by Emily (68.13.144.194) on January 30, 2003 at 12:34:03:
Hey, I went to a lot of trouble to make those criticisms non-specific in case they didn't apply to you D:
It's not just banks, pension funds are huge players too. Basically the world is ruled by governments and big-shot investors. A tiny number of these investors are actually using their own money, like Warren Buffett and George Soros.
But the guys who really matter are the bankers, the pension fund managers. They control the investing of trillions of dollars. The money they use belongs to ordinary American European and Japanese citizens like you and me. It's savings, pension contributions. These three groups comprise a sixth of the world's people but 4/5 of its money.
When a company is forced to shut down its factory in Omaha and relocate it to Mexico, the money comes partially from the workers who are made unemployed.
In the business world, nothing happens without our money. If money managers do stuff that ordinary people don't like (like set up sweatshops, torture animals, murder dolphins, overpay CEOs), we should punish them by depriving them of our money.
At the moment, that doesn't happen. There is a fringe movement starting to form, based around "ethical investing". Far as I know, there are no ethical banks. It's a catch-22, of course; but maybe one will form if idealistic people show there's a demand for it.
While the world is ruled by capitalism, the only way to get businesses to act decently is to restrict investment to those who act decently. As of right now, all you have to do is promise to make money.
But for any organisation to have the clout to require better behavior from businesses will require hundreds of billions of dollars in its war chest. This is actually possible if you and the tens of millions of people in America, Japan and Europe who agree with you agree to band together: that's enough cash to really make a difference.
I'm not aware of anybody on earth making that proposal, but I can't see how anything else can possibly work.
I can't be specific because nothing like that has ever happened before.
> I haven't read much about the evils of banks so I'm not really qualified to comment. I'm not avoiding anything because I don't know what there is to avoid. Instead of criticizing me and giving obscure examples like "How else can you explain people who put huge effort into "right-on" shopping, but do all their banking with conglomerates that finance child slavery in Haiti?", why not tell me how to help? Give me some links, some articles, show me how I can help. I am more than open to ideas like this but I wouldn't have any idea how to start. I'm not against you. Teach me, Dee! I don't care about my bank and the only reason I use them is because my mom set up the account for me when I was 14. I've never given it a second thought until now. You have to remember that some people want to learn, and they want to be taught.
> Also, I don't consider myself to be an activist by any means. I am also not out to change the world in my own lifetime. Going vegan was my choice and I don't abuse others for not making the same choices I have. I may argue against the practice of killing, but not against the individuals that fund it. I might say, "It's wrong to kill", but not "You're an asshole for funding death." I plan to teach my children all that I learn, and those that are closest to me. I would never force my life on anyone, but if they choose to follow the same path as me, then I'll help them along the way. There's no use in bullying people.