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Yes, I do

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Posted by Elizabeth on December 11, 2000 at 15:27:15:

In Reply to: So you wanna talk about subtexts? posted by Mikko on December 11, 2000 at 14:00:35:

Well, hello. Nice to meet you. Always surprises me when someone comes out and speaks their mind directly... uses truth instead of personal attack or manipulation. Definitely the way I prefer to interact but as a five I always hide in subtext when I have reason to believe I'm being worked. Was I wrong? Should I have trusted Perciever when he began drawing conclusions about my personality and asking me personal questions about my sexuality?

: In subtext, it is what he's saying, Mikko. By saying "it's a simple fact of life", you are not only reinforcing the idea but saying that it
should not be resisted. That's very disappointing.

In the subtext you are saying you know what I mean by what I don't say. In the subtext you are saying I'm not standing up against what's unfair.
In the subtext you are saying I'm a sexist.

You're right. I was saying all of those things. Not because I believed them but because I wanted to know where you really stood and didn't trust you enough to ask directly. I'm sorry... now that I know you're a straight-shooter, I won't play that way anymore.

: No question some girls do it to get sex. Do you find that morally offensive?

In the subtext you are saying I'm a moralist. In the subtext you are saying I'm a hypocrite. In the subtext you are saying I don't like girls who like
sex.

Now, here I did ASK not tell. There was just enough suggestion in what you said to make me wonder and not to draw a conclusion.

SO WHY DON'T WE JUST CUT THIS SUBTEXT CRAP?

Because everything we say is FULL of subtext and though it isn't plain and clear... it is where TRUTH lies. As a type five I love puzzles and seek truth. Ofcourse, using intuition means risking being wrong but more often it means finding life's interesting secrets.

It's introverted intuition unbalanced by a healthy extraverted function and thus hinders accurate interaction between people. Nothing is as
frustrating as people who focus on what you don't say and assume a lot without asking.

An interesting distinction: accurate interaction between people as a goal rather than accurate interpretation of people as a goal. What type are you?

If I say that something is reality, it doesn't mean I accept it. It simply means I've observed it happen and know it's a fact. Pretending it doesn't
exist or happen doesn't really help, does it?

I agree completely.

What does my morality have to do with anything? Are you just trying to polarize this issue so you can counter what I say next? I'm simply saying
some women do their best to maintain the image telling 'I have a tattoo so I'm slutty'. I don't agree with that image, necessarily. Just as Jeff said,
a girl with a tattoo is a girl with a tattoo until we know more about her, and as long as I don't know any women who behave in the described way,
I refuse to make any moral judgements.

I was trying to understand your position. A lot of people have double standards for sexuality between men and women. I may have been trying to work an advantage but more than anything I was trying to determine why you used the example you did and why you told the story the way you did. A few key phrases sent up red flags for me... I was investigating.

Well, that's the straight story. This is my first real adventure off the five board (where most folk work discussion like me) and it has been quite interesting.

Follow Ups:

Re: Yes, I do Mikko 07:30:43 12/12/00 (1)
- Thanks for the response Elizabeth 12:35:23 12/12/00 (0)

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: Well, hello. Nice to meet you. Always surprises me when someone comes out and speaks their mind directly... uses truth instead of personal attack or manipulation. Definitely the way I prefer to interact but as a five I always hide in subtext when I have reason to believe I'm being worked. Was I wrong? Should I have trusted Perciever when he began drawing conclusions about my personality and asking me personal questions about my sexuality? : : In subtext, it is what he's saying, Mikko. By saying "it's a simple fact of life", you are not only reinforcing the idea but saying that it : should not be resisted. That's very disappointing. : In the subtext you are saying you know what I mean by what I don't say. In the subtext you are saying I'm not standing up against what's unfair. : In the subtext you are saying I'm a sexist. : You're right. I was saying all of those things. Not because I believed them but because I wanted to know where you really stood and didn't trust you enough to ask directly. I'm sorry... now that I know you're a straight-shooter, I won't play that way anymore. : : No question some girls do it to get sex. Do you find that morally offensive? : In the subtext you are saying I'm a moralist. In the subtext you are saying I'm a hypocrite. In the subtext you are saying I don't like girls who like : sex. : Now, here I did ASK not tell. There was just enough suggestion in what you said to make me wonder and not to draw a conclusion. : SO WHY DON'T WE JUST CUT THIS SUBTEXT CRAP? : Because everything we say is FULL of subtext and though it isn't plain and clear... it is where TRUTH lies. As a type five I love puzzles and seek truth. Ofcourse, using intuition means risking being wrong but more often it means finding life's interesting secrets. : It's introverted intuition unbalanced by a healthy extraverted function and thus hinders accurate interaction between people. Nothing is as : frustrating as people who focus on what you don't say and assume a lot without asking. : An interesting distinction: accurate interaction between people as a goal rather than accurate interpretation of people as a goal. What type are you? : If I say that something is reality, it doesn't mean I accept it. It simply means I've observed it happen and know it's a fact. Pretending it doesn't : exist or happen doesn't really help, does it? : I agree completely. : What does my morality have to do with anything? Are you just trying to polarize this issue so you can counter what I say next? I'm simply saying : some women do their best to maintain the image telling 'I have a tattoo so I'm slutty'. I don't agree with that image, necessarily. Just as Jeff said, : a girl with a tattoo is a girl with a tattoo until we know more about her, and as long as I don't know any women who behave in the described way, : I refuse to make any moral judgements. : I was trying to understand your position. A lot of people have double standards for sexuality between men and women. I may have been trying to work an advantage but more than anything I was trying to determine why you used the example you did and why you told the story the way you did. A few key phrases sent up red flags for me... I was investigating. : Well, that's the straight story. This is my first real adventure off the five board (where most folk work discussion like me) and it has been quite interesting.

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