Re: discussion about the causes of world poverty and wealth

Subject:

Comments:
: : +++ sometimes its very good to be pernicious. The third world aid The Netherlands gives is very large and partly 'guilt motivated'. Research into its net effects showed there were none. It's sterile excercise in transferring money from the poor in the rich countries to the pockets of the rich in the poor countries, was the outcome of this research. : I certainly don't think that guilt is a good motivation for action. However, most countries do not give : nearly enough of their money to causes, constructive or non-constructive. And then they take it all back : in debt repayments, unfair trading rules, etc. I doubt Holland can do much good on its own, if the richest : countries are supporting such a system. : : +++ however the most important objection I have to your position is that when writing history; you should not let yourself be influenced by the effects of your research on the present. As the great German historian Ranke said; you should write about history 'wie es eigenlich gewesen' (how it really was). If your research debunks old marxist dogma's; let it be. : I make the same objection to Mr. Landes. : : : The Protestant work ethic is at least as much Three as One. : : +++ No; nobody would type Calvin or Luther as E3's! : Neither of them supported the Protestant work ethic. : : E3's bascially are not innovative at all; they like to use proven things. : But they work very hard at them and attempt to improve their lot, which is what motivated : the protestant work ethic. : : E3 and E1 movements are indeed mutually exclusive: the essence of the reformation movement was that people started to think through models/existing philosophies for themselves (they started buying bibles and reading) and search for truth. : No offense, but the average to unhealthy One mentality takes social rules and hardens them rather than examens them itself. : : otherwise Morocco and all those mediterannean countries which radiate E3 'quick trick' tradesman qualities would be very prosperous indeed. : Or maybe their social structures aren't such that Threes can take advantage of their talents. : : The fall of the asian tigers supports Landes theory that the E1 mindset is the real long term source of wealth. : And the Asian tigers were less One than the West? Not from what I heard of them. : : I don't think guilt for Third World poverty is essentially Marxist. (Indeed Marx might : : : have endorsed the thesis.) It's moral. Lots of Westerners criticised our role in other : : : countries before Marx was born. : : +++ Perhaps some guys from the Enlightenment? Voltaire? But Hobsbawm and the other marxist historians certainly were the great protagonists of the 'guilt thinking' in our century. : Some guys from the Reformation. Montaigne, George Herbert (the Anglican poet-priest), Dr. Johnson. : I suspect Herbert and Johnson's attitude to the conquest of the Americas was typical outside the : dominant Three culture that was actually responsible. (You can say that it was Ones who were : responsible if you like.) : : : : The best way to make money is to have lots of money already. The Third World : : : isn't poor because they're all Nines. : : +++ No of course they are not all E9's but the rural easy going way of life looks very 9-ish (manana!) : One remembers that the reason Nines are supposed to become Nines is that when they were young all : their attempts at self-assertion were squashed. In this case, by the social arrangements that benefit a : few people in the poorer countries and most people in the richer countries. : : They're poor because they don't have any capital : : : to work with, and they don't have any capital because they are taking part in an : : : international trading system which is biased in favour of the rich nations. : : : : : +++ this is a very marxist tune (prices of raw materials go down; prices of end products go up etc-thinking); you are one of Landes targets I guess : Just because it's Marxist doesn't mean it's incorrect. And it isn't just Marxists who : say this. The Roman Catholic church does too. : : : We don't really know : : +++ or: perhaps: don't want to know? : I don't think many people do want to know. The sort of theory Landes is promoting seems to reflect : what most people want to believe certainly. : : : what caused the European expansionist movement of the Sixteenth : : : Century. : Dafyd

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL: