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Re: EMMA (1996) - Jane Austen's novel
Re: EMMA (1996) - Jane Austen's novel
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Posted by Dafyd on March 11, 1999 at 13:53:10:
In Reply to: Re: EMMA (1996) - Jane Austen's novel posted by Jan den Breejen on March 09, 1999 at 09:06:29:
: Dafyd; I think the overall score of consensus on this large amount of characters is not very bad at al (and we certainly saw the same movie). I zoom in on our disagreements: Thank you. : : I said Emma was probably a Seven somewhere down below. Certainly not a Two by any means. : : : Prideful, sometimes arrogantly blunt : : That rules out Two doesn't it?
: ++++ There is a thin line between pride and arrogance; and in the picknick-scene I would call Emma's remarks towards the elder insecure E6 woman 'arrogant'. Exactly. Would a Two say something like that? She's quite clearly not considering other people's emotions at the time. I don't think one
could ever call Twos arrogant. : : : meddling 'adviser', manipulating things in her own relational interest but under the cloak of 'it's for your own good', addicted to others emotional problems : : Actually, Emma is remarkably good at leaving other people's problems alone
[I do hope I said: when she has issues of her own to deal with]
: +++ Yes, this is her personal growth which she obtains only after some painful experiences Actually one of the fun things about the novel is that Emma doesn't suddenly improve after every painful experience. She keeps making
mistakes. After she realises that she has made a mistake with Mr. Elton, she still thinks that she has to take charge of Harriet and
keep her from marrying 'beneath' her. At that stage, she still believes that Harriet is the child of some gentry who will be
romantically claimed by her father. (Emma is rather over-imaginative.) However, the ball with Frank Churchill is much more important
to her than taking charge of Harriet. (There is a sentence that says that explicitly in the novel.) : : : Denial of own needs: 'I have very little intention of marrying at all…' : : I think this is rather a Sevenish inattention to her own emotion, and unwillingness to commit.
: : As Emma says, she is comfortably off and doesn't need to marry. : +++ 7's are not so much interested in others lives; they are busy with their OWN enjoyment; Emma is constantly thinking about other people's emotions. E2! As you noticed above, Emma is not very attentive to other people's emotions. Emma does take charge of Harriet basically for her own
enjoyment. As for other people's emotions, let us see. She misreads Mr. Elton's emotions (mostly through inattention to them, and not
realising that other people don't always do what one imagines they will. She is painfully insensitive to Harriet's emotions.
(Incidentally, the novel repeatedly says that Emma finds comforting Harriet a painful duty, which she has to make herself do. And that
she is glad when the snow means that she doesn't have to deal with emotional issues). She doesn't notice Frank Churchill's emotions.
She has very little idea of Jane's emotions. She completely fails to notice Mr Knightley's emotions. Emma has the emotional perception
of a rock.
The reason why Emma becomes interested in other people's affairs is that there is nothing else for an intelligent restless young woman
of her social class to do in her society. : : The other option for Emma is Three, although more principled than the Eltons. I don't think so -
: : she tends to take up projects and drop them when she loses interest. That's more obvious in the novel.
: +++ Emma taking up 'projects'???? Can you give an example? She gossips the entire movie; E3's like to be businesslike 'personal emotions. love etc' is certainly not the focus of E3 (on the contrary I would say) Painting. (Even in the film, she had a lot of unfinished paintings.) Music - in the novel she is aware that her musical talent would be
higher if she bothered to practice. (There's one lovely scene where she is annoyed by Jane's genuine talent into actually practicing for
a whole hour.)
(I agree with businesslike emotions for Threes in general - but Emma isn't a business woman. She does avoid the sorts of emotions that
Threes have trouble with. Still, I agree Emma isn't a Three.) : : : The Reverend Mr. Elton - E7
: : : He also has a serious problem with impulse control; he tries to grab Emma in the couch; 'I worship you….passionately!' : : Mr. Elton is a conventional Georgian vicar, intent on social climbing. I think he's a Three. He doesn't have
: : poor impulse control: he's doing what he considers the done thing when proposing. : +++ Do you really think this way of declaring love was CONVENTIONAL??? On the contrary. That's why Emma gets so upset. It's the 18th century!! I don't think this honest show of exuberant affection to be very E3-ish at all. An E3 would propose conforming with the social forms and manners of that time. He also looks not confident enough to be an E3. It's the 19th century not the 18th. :) The romantic revolution is in full swing, and the 'man of sentiment' has been an ideal for the last
fifty years, since Sterne. Mr. Elton has been reading the same books as Marianne Dashwood. Emma's upset because she didn't expect Mr. Elton to
be in love with her and she doesn't like to deal with emotions.
Mr. Elton manages to control his impulses perfectly well in all the scenes up to that scene, and he controls his impulses in all the scenes
afterward. What makes you even think it an 'honest show of exuberant affection.' Only his pride is hurt by the rejection. He had no emotional
investment at all. He also plays the part of the happy husband remarkably well, even married to Mrs Elton. : : : Mr Weston (Frank Churchill's father) - E3
: : : For him all's a question of image. : : Have we seen the same film? Is this the same Mr Weston? Mr. Weston is an honourable good-hearted man in the novel, and
: : I don't remember anything different in the film. I'm not sure of his type - Seven or Nine I think.
: +++ E9?? no no; E9's minimize the importance of things and persons, and Mr. Weston inflates the importance of his son
: +++ E7? what reason do you have for thinking he's E7? He's too serious for E7 and not a visionary person. Mr Weston is basically optimistic and thinks well of everybody, even his son. I don't think you can say he's not a Nine just
because he thinks very highly of his son. His character isn't well marked enough for me to remember details off the top of
my head. : : : Frank 'I am happy to have been of service' Churchill - E2-7
: : : Proud, spoiled prince, seductive flatterer : : A clear Seven. Talks nicely to other people to make sure that everything is lovely in the garden.
: ++++ I would type him as E2-7. He likes variety and excitement; BUT he focusses on the need of others He does? Give examples? I remember the piano, which Jane didn't really want. And he holds a ball, which is what he wants.
(Emma, as we have noted is also very pleased to have the ball.) He heads off to London for a day, leaving all the other
characters who all enjoy his company (apart from the One Mr. Knightley), just to get a haircut.
Mr. Knightley disapproves of Frank's inconstancy and light-mindedness - and Mr. Knightley is a very good judge of character
(even when jealous.) :; and this is exactly the opposite of what an E7 would do. An E7 thinks he's very OK already and doesn't have to flatter or do special things to woe other people. And you think Frank doesn't think he's very OK already? Your description of Sevens fits Frank Churchill perfectly.
Sevens are charming to deflect criticism or to get their way - that's what Frank does. : And remember what he said to Emma; 'The thing I find most difficult in life is parting with other people': this is exactly the opposite of the non-commital stance of the 'promiscuous' E7! Also the most important thing of an E7 is his visionary talent; not at all observing people and gossiping about their emotional private lives. The E7 is focussing in on HIS/HER needs and pleasures. Since Frank's actions throughout the film suggest that he finds it extremely easy to part with people, I suspect that he is saying what sounds good. : Also his relational loyalty to Jane is very un-e7-ish. He flirts with everyone in sight, ignores Jane half the time, and ignores her feelings. That may be relational loyalty I suppose. Dafyd
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