Re: Inventive personality type: 3w4

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Posted by Dave Kelly on April 03, 2000 at 21:33:42:

In Reply to: Re: Inventive personality type: 3w4 posted by Gigi on April 02, 2000 at 22:29:04:

Hi Gigi,

What I was trying to do mostly when I wrote up the Inventive description was to try to differentiate the Inventive from the Self-Confident, by focusing on the differences between "N" and "S". The way I see it Inventive = ENTP and Self-Confident = ESTP. I wrote the description so that ESTPs would hate it and ENTPs love it.

Your problems with the definition are very well stated ( I include your answer to Andy, also). I think that you're a Self-Confident 3w4 and an ESTP!

Dave

: Hi Dave!

: I am a 3w4 and an Extravert with Sensing and Thinking functions. I have yet to decide which is the dominant one, but I feel like it might be the thinking.

: I am a bit puzzled by your post. Do you mean to say that 3w4s who are also ENTPs are the Inventive Personality Types?

: I take it that you mean "inventive" in finding solutions to problems of any kind. "Innovative" in the sense that the 3 handles the situation in the best possible way.

: The first thing I want to point out is that your list of 10 points must sound like an "astrological reading." Look, Cory finds himself in them and he is no 3!

: As a 3 I agree with many of the points except the following. The "self-conciousness" part: A 3w4 does not usually seek for approval. Not enough that you can list it as a trait.

: The "innovation" section is not all true either. A 3w4 will accomodate tradition and routine if it serves the end goal.

: Secondly, your "innovation" and "self-conciousness" points do not go together. How can a person who is independent and reluctant to do things as they were always done also seek approval?

: Thirdly, the follwing traits of an ENTP do not fit a 3w4 at all, so IMO a 3w4 cannot be an ENTP.

: -ENTPs are not strong in completing projects. 3s complete projects. They are adamant, persistent; they are survivors. If a 3w4 does not complete a project then s/he is ill or non-functional, etc.

:
: -ENTPs are impulsive. 3s are *not* impulsive. On the contrary, they think, calculate, contemplate, use their will-power, and act. They may be quick, but they are not impulsive.

: -ENTPs hate routine. 3s will accomodate routine if necessary, if it serves the purpose of dealing with the situation.

: -ENTPs hate planning. 3s plan. Oh, a lot of fore-thinking and planning is involved, I assure you.

: -ENTPs value inspiration above everything else. 3s value the immediate situation above everything else.

: -ENTPs are after possibilities. 3w4s are after actualities.

: As a last thing, I don't really want to be categorical in what I said above. After all, this weekend I met an 8 who is an INFJ and a 3 who is a INXP. At least they said so.

: So, what do you think?

:
: : This is my new construct for the Inventive personality type, which corresponds to the 3w4 and the ENTP.

: :

Idealized self-image. Individuals of the Inventive type develop highly idealized images of themselves with which they identify and which they love. The person is his idealized self and seems to adore it (Glad, 494).

: :
Subdued demeanor. Persons of the Inventive type are energetic, but phlegmatic in temperament. "They can be quiet, rather private, subdued in demeanor, and have artistic interests and aesthetic sensibilities (Riso, 102)."

: :
Attention. Individuals of the Inventive type have a tendency to behave in such a way as to attract attention. "They can be subtle show-offs, but show-offs nonetheless (Riso, 103)."

: :
Openness to culture. The Inventive person has unusual thought processes, values intellectual matters, and judges in unconventional terms. He or she is aesthetically reactive and has a wide range of interests (McCrae and John).

: :
Intelligence. "Intelligence will typically be emphasized in their self-images and social dealings." They put great stock in their ideas and demand that others do likewise (Riso, 103).

: :
Competence. The faith of those of the Inventive type is "in their ability to improvise something, and they display an unusual talent for rising to the expediency of a situation (Keirsey, 184)." Their focus is on competent excellence in performance.

: :
Innovation. The Inventive type maintains an independent view and is "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things always have been done (Keirsey, 183)." They are inventors and innovators.

: :
Cleverness. They are mentally bright and quick-witted. For those of the Inventive type "to be taken in, to be manipulated by another, is humiliating; this offends their joy in being masters of the art of oneupmanship (Keirsey, 185)."

: :
Status. They are highly competitive in pursuit of success and prestige. They want very much to be outstanding in some way (Riso, 103), to gain recognition, even fame and glory.

: :
Self-consciousness Persons of the Inventive type look to others for approval (Reich, 47). They are very conscious of how others treat them (Riso, 103) and highly sensitive to criticism (Oldham, 89) and negative evaluation.
: :

: : Dave

PTypes - Self-Confident Personality Type

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: Hi Gigi, : What I was trying to do mostly when I wrote up the Inventive description was to try to differentiate the Inventive from the Self-Confident, by focusing on the differences between "N" and "S". The way I see it Inventive = ENTP and Self-Confident = ESTP. I wrote the description so that ESTPs would hate it and ENTPs love it. : : Your problems with the definition are very well stated ( I include your answer to Andy, also). I think that you're a Self-Confident 3w4 and an ESTP! : Dave : : : Hi Dave! : : I am a 3w4 and an Extravert with Sensing and Thinking functions. I have yet to decide which is the dominant one, but I feel like it might be the thinking. : : I am a bit puzzled by your post. Do you mean to say that 3w4s who are also ENTPs are the Inventive Personality Types? : : I take it that you mean "inventive" in finding solutions to problems of any kind. "Innovative" in the sense that the 3 handles the situation in the best possible way. : : The first thing I want to point out is that your list of 10 points must sound like an "astrological reading." Look, Cory finds himself in them and he is no 3! : : As a 3 I agree with many of the points except the following. The "self-conciousness" part: A 3w4 does not usually seek for approval. Not enough that you can list it as a trait. : : The "innovation" section is not all true either. A 3w4 will accomodate tradition and routine if it serves the end goal. : : Secondly, your "innovation" and "self-conciousness" points do not go together. How can a person who is independent and reluctant to do things as they were always done also seek approval? : : Thirdly, the follwing traits of an ENTP do not fit a 3w4 at all, so IMO a 3w4 cannot be an ENTP. : : -ENTPs are not strong in completing projects. 3s complete projects. They are adamant, persistent; they are survivors. If a 3w4 does not complete a project then s/he is ill or non-functional, etc. : : : : -ENTPs are impulsive. 3s are *not* impulsive. On the contrary, they think, calculate, contemplate, use their will-power, and act. They may be quick, but they are not impulsive. : : -ENTPs hate routine. 3s will accomodate routine if necessary, if it serves the purpose of dealing with the situation. : : -ENTPs hate planning. 3s plan. Oh, a lot of fore-thinking and planning is involved, I assure you. : : -ENTPs value inspiration above everything else. 3s value the immediate situation above everything else. : : -ENTPs are after possibilities. 3w4s are after actualities. : : As a last thing, I don't really want to be categorical in what I said above. After all, this weekend I met an 8 who is an INFJ and a 3 who is a INXP. At least they said so. : : So, what do you think? : : : : : : This is my new construct for the Inventive personality type, which corresponds to the 3w4 and the ENTP. : : : <OL> : : : <LI>Idealized self-image. Individuals of the Inventive type develop highly idealized images of themselves with which they identify and which they love. The person is his idealized self and seems to adore it (Glad, 494). : : : <LI>Subdued demeanor. Persons of the Inventive type are energetic, but phlegmatic in temperament. "They can be quiet, rather private, subdued in demeanor, and have artistic interests and aesthetic sensibilities (Riso, 102)." : : : <LI>Attention. Individuals of the Inventive type have a tendency to behave in such a way as to attract attention. "They can be subtle show-offs, but show-offs nonetheless (Riso, 103)." : : : <LI>Openness to culture. The Inventive person has unusual thought processes, values intellectual matters, and judges in unconventional terms. He or she is aesthetically reactive and has a wide range of interests (McCrae and John). : : : <LI>Intelligence. "Intelligence will typically be emphasized in their self-images and social dealings." They put great stock in their ideas and demand that others do likewise (Riso, 103). : : : <LI>Competence. The faith of those of the Inventive type is "in their ability to improvise something, and they display an unusual talent for rising to the expediency of a situation (Keirsey, 184)." Their focus is on competent excellence in performance. : : : <LI>Innovation. The Inventive type maintains an independent view and is "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things always have been done (Keirsey, 183)." They are inventors and innovators. : : : <LI>Cleverness. They are mentally bright and quick-witted. For those of the Inventive type "to be taken in, to be manipulated by another, is humiliating; this offends their joy in being masters of the art of oneupmanship (Keirsey, 185)." : : : <LI>Status. They are highly competitive in pursuit of success and prestige. They want very much to be outstanding in some way (Riso, 103), to gain recognition, even fame and glory. : : : <LI>Self-consciousness Persons of the Inventive type look to others for approval (Reich, 47). They are very conscious of how others treat them (Riso, 103) and highly sensitive to criticism (Oldham, 89) and negative evaluation. : : : </OL> : : : Dave

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