Tactfulness and the need to be admired: inseparable?

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Posted by Derf on July 01, 1999 at 00:18:47:

In Reply to: Re: being a healthy 4; to the extent that I am posted by Hal on June 29, 1999 at 09:12:44:

: : Why do "tactful" and "tasteful" have to imply a concern for what others think? I mentioned *concern for what YOU think*; and following this, concern for what others think seems to be a given in your mind. By that token, "caring" and "loved" should imply the same thing. Also, by your argument, any statement that begins "I see myself as..." should be suspect, so it doesn't matter what words you choose. Yet, I don't think the implication of a reference to other people is necessary. Not that I think an external frame of reference, in sensible doses, is without advantage. In fact, you can grow a great deal by paying attention to what others think of you, albeit disallowing them excessive control over your mind. Another area I feel I should touch on: If you stand for the obliteration of self-image, too - say, in your quest to become "selfless" - then just as you cannot follow me on my path, so I cannot follow you on yours. :>

: I guess I'm still unclear on what you mean. I can see being tasteful for yourself (i.e. being true to yourself, someone you can be comfortable with) but if you're not concerned with what others think, then whom are you being tactful towards? I can see being good to myself, but I don't know what it would mean to be tactful to or for myself. Also, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with describing how you see yourself, but until we achieve Enlightenment I can't see how we can do this without some frame of reference. It could be other people, ourself in the past, or some imaginary ideal, but if we see ourselves at all, it is a relative seeing.

Here's my answer (again, brief - in contrast to the message heading):

Tactful = gracious, gentle, concerned with putting others at ease, or perhaps elating them. It doesn't have to arise from a need to be seen in a good light unless your tact is self-serving in this respect. But it doesn't have to be, does it?

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: : : Why do "tactful" and "tasteful" have to imply a concern for what others think? I mentioned *concern for what YOU think*; and following this, concern for what others think seems to be a given in your mind. By that token, "caring" and "loved" should imply the same thing. Also, by your argument, any statement that begins "I see myself as..." should be suspect, so it doesn't matter what words you choose. Yet, I don't think the implication of a reference to other people is necessary. Not that I think an external frame of reference, in sensible doses, is without advantage. In fact, you can grow a great deal by paying attention to what others think of you, albeit disallowing them excessive control over your mind. Another area I feel I should touch on: If you stand for the obliteration of self-image, too - say, in your quest to become "selfless" - then just as you cannot follow me on my path, so I cannot follow you on yours. :> : : I guess I'm still unclear on what you mean. I can see being tasteful for yourself (i.e. being true to yourself, someone you can be comfortable with) but if you're not concerned with what others think, then whom are you being tactful towards? I can see being good to myself, but I don't know what it would mean to be tactful to or for myself. Also, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with describing how you see yourself, but until we achieve Enlightenment I can't see how we can do this without some frame of reference. It could be other people, ourself in the past, or some imaginary ideal, but if we see ourselves at all, it is a relative seeing. : Here's my answer (again, brief - in contrast to the message heading): : Tactful = gracious, gentle, concerned with putting others at ease, or perhaps elating them. It doesn't have to arise from a need to be seen in a good light unless your tact is self-serving in this respect. But it doesn't have to be, does it?

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