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Psychics are psychos

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Posted by Cory on March 31, 2001 at 20:06:12:

In Reply to: Re: Lets talk about this, shall we? posted by Lisza on March 31, 2001 at 19:35:29:

Excuse my sarcastic, edgy tone. I'm just a very scientific person and don't have much tolerance for superstitions. In the past though, I was quite the opposite. When I was a child, I was always reading about ghosts, UFOs, the lochness monster, psychics, etc. and believed every bit of it. Then when I was a teenager and got into my "philosophy" phase I was always a bit skeptical of science. Now, as a young adult, I've realized that while science is not perfect, it's our best tool to understanding.

: +++ Maybe science hasn't found any evidence YET. There are people in my family who are semi-psychic so I have to believe in the psychic phenomenon at least a bit.

This argument would be more applicable if we were discussing extraterrestial life. Just because we've searched .0001% of the universe and havent found any aliens doesn't mean they don't exist. With psychics, they're much easier to find. Magician James Randi has offered a substantial cash sum to anybody who can prove they have psychic powers under laboratory conditions. Of course, he's not too worried since he knows he will never have to give up the money. :)

Now, regarding your family, you sure they are not just coincidences? This could be a case of selective thinking, where you only focus on the hits, and ignore the misses. Every night we dream, and many times in one night there are multiple dreams so we have literally hundreds of dreams a year. Add this over time, and if a dream comes true, it's just the magic of statistics at work. Let's say you dream there's a plane crash. The next day you turn on the TV and a 747 has crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. Many people would immediately jump to the conclusion "Hey, I'm psychic"...but lets examine this closer. Planes crash. It's inevitable. While they're not all that common, it does happen. Now, in a world of billions of people, do you not think it's reasonable that a person has a dream about a plane crash, and the next day, a plane does crash? It just so happens that that lucky person is you. What about if you dream a plane will crash and nothing happens?

It's also about what you personally find meaningful. Let's say for example you dream you are playing roulette and you choose number 5 and the next day you go to a casino, play roulette and pick 5. If you win, you would think it's a psychic ability (even though the odds are 1 in 36 that you would win). If you didn't, you wouldn't.

Let's take this example further and imagine a roulette wheel with 500,000 numbers on it. :) You choose 737,111 in your dream and in your real life, you win. Psychic ability? Not quite.

What if the ball falls on number 235,981? The odds that a ball would fall on 737,111 or 235,981 are the exactly the same. The only reason you believe you are psychic is because the 737 number matched the one in your dream.

So in summary, just because Y follows X does not mean that X caused Y. Nor does it necessarily imply a relationship between X and Y. You dream a plane crash, a plane crashes...but there does not have to be a relationship. There COULD be a relationship, yes, but you would need further evidence to support your claims.

: +++ Maybe some people (including Keirsey) mistake intuition in it's unconscious or "inferior" form as the real intuitive function.

Oh, I don't believe in "inferior" functions either :) People pretty much all act the same when mad, regardless of function. There's a book by Naomi Quenk called Beside Ourselves which focuses almost exclusively on people acting out their inferiors, but it never convinced me. Hedonism and overeating are the results of inferior Extraverted Sensing? Would that mean hedonists and extremists are just INFJs chronically in their inferior?

There's also a lot of contradiction. For example, when ExFJs act out their Introverted Thinking there is a "hyperobsession with logic". Interestingly enough when IxTPs act out their Extraverted Feeling, there is a similar statement which says they overemphasize logic. Wouldn't they be acting in COMPLETELY different ways?

Besides, how can we even discuss functions when no one can agree on what they are? :)

: +++ Well, I always thought that as wonderful as science is, it is a tiny bit narrow (at least as it is at the moment).

Let me use a metaphor. You know in cracker jack boxes where they have those little pictures in red, blue, green etc. and it comes with a plastic see-thru red frame which you put over the picture and you can read the hidden message? Science is kind of like that. It filters out all the crap that keeps you from seeing truth. When you're TOO open-minded (and lack a healthy sense of skepticism) you see ALL the colors and everything is plausible, but you cannot discern the message.

-Cory

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Re: Psychics are psychos ray raymond 16:23:20 05/16/01 (0)
Re: Psychics are psychos Lisza 01:22:04 04/01/01 (0)

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: Excuse my sarcastic, edgy tone. I'm just a very scientific person and don't have much tolerance for superstitions. In the past though, I was quite the opposite. When I was a child, I was always reading about ghosts, UFOs, the lochness monster, psychics, etc. and believed every bit of it. Then when I was a teenager and got into my "philosophy" phase I was always a bit skeptical of science. Now, as a young adult, I've realized that while science is not perfect, it's our best tool to understanding. : : +++ Maybe science hasn't found any evidence YET. There are people in my family who are semi-psychic so I have to believe in the psychic phenomenon at least a bit. : This argument would be more applicable if we were discussing extraterrestial life. Just because we've searched .0001% of the universe and havent found any aliens doesn't mean they don't exist. With psychics, they're much easier to find. Magician James Randi has offered a substantial cash sum to anybody who can prove they have psychic powers under laboratory conditions. Of course, he's not too worried since he knows he will never have to give up the money. :) : Now, regarding your family, you sure they are not just coincidences? This could be a case of selective thinking, where you only focus on the hits, and ignore the misses. Every night we dream, and many times in one night there are multiple dreams so we have literally hundreds of dreams a year. Add this over time, and if a dream comes true, it's just the magic of statistics at work. Let's say you dream there's a plane crash. The next day you turn on the TV and a 747 has crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. Many people would immediately jump to the conclusion "Hey, I'm psychic"...but lets examine this closer. Planes crash. It's inevitable. While they're not all that common, it does happen. Now, in a world of billions of people, do you not think it's reasonable that a person has a dream about a plane crash, and the next day, a plane does crash? It just so happens that that lucky person is you. What about if you dream a plane will crash and nothing happens? : It's also about what you personally find meaningful. Let's say for example you dream you are playing roulette and you choose number 5 and the next day you go to a casino, play roulette and pick 5. If you win, you would think it's a psychic ability (even though the odds are 1 in 36 that you would win). If you didn't, you wouldn't. : Let's take this example further and imagine a roulette wheel with 500,000 numbers on it. :) You choose 737,111 in your dream and in your real life, you win. Psychic ability? Not quite. : What if the ball falls on number 235,981? The odds that a ball would fall on 737,111 or 235,981 are the exactly the same. The only reason you believe you are psychic is because the 737 number matched the one in your dream. : So in summary, just because Y follows X does not mean that X caused Y. Nor does it necessarily imply a relationship between X and Y. You dream a plane crash, a plane crashes...but there does not have to be a relationship. There COULD be a relationship, yes, but you would need further evidence to support your claims. : : : +++ Maybe some people (including Keirsey) mistake intuition in it's unconscious or "inferior" form as the real intuitive function. : Oh, I don't believe in "inferior" functions either :) People pretty much all act the same when mad, regardless of function. There's a book by Naomi Quenk called Beside Ourselves which focuses almost exclusively on people acting out their inferiors, but it never convinced me. Hedonism and overeating are the results of inferior Extraverted Sensing? Would that mean hedonists and extremists are just INFJs chronically in their inferior? : There's also a lot of contradiction. For example, when ExFJs act out their Introverted Thinking there is a "hyperobsession with logic". Interestingly enough when IxTPs act out their Extraverted Feeling, there is a similar statement which says they overemphasize logic. Wouldn't they be acting in COMPLETELY different ways? : Besides, how can we even discuss functions when no one can agree on what they are? :) : : : +++ Well, I always thought that as wonderful as science is, it is a tiny bit narrow (at least as it is at the moment). : Let me use a metaphor. You know in cracker jack boxes where they have those little pictures in red, blue, green etc. and it comes with a plastic see-thru red frame which you put over the picture and you can read the hidden message? Science is kind of like that. It filters out all the crap that keeps you from seeing truth. When you're TOO open-minded (and lack a healthy sense of skepticism) you see ALL the colors and everything is plausible, but you cannot discern the message. : -Cory

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