Re: Lets talk about this, shall we? (revised for clarity)

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: I'll get back to this more fully, but as an atheist I have some small issues about this kind of stuff. : Say somebody believes in something outlandish (there's a little blue ghost which lives in your brain that goes purple when you become angry or sinful, something like that) that can't be 100% disproven. Now if lots of Enneagram folks start theorizing about what color a disintegrating seven's ghost is, isn't the science of the enneagram just a little poorer? : We can't just scream "But that's pure bullshit!" because we can't disprove the assertion. All we can do is say there's no evidence for it at all. Can't we just have a gentleman's agreement between believers and nonbelievers (in whatever) that we won't bring up stuff for which no evidence exists? That would include statements like "Jesus likes Eights more" or something involving psychic ability. : In case you think I'm mocking your beliefs in psychic abilities, I actually do think some evidence exists for the transfer of information between beings which have never even seen or been near each other. I'm at least halfway down the road towards agreeing with you. : One more: this is not about religion, just about what we should limit discussion to, so please nobody pick up on that non-issue. : : : First off, there is NO reliable scientific evidence to support psychic phenomenon. Some studies have been conducted, but the results are questionable. : : I agree with you. Psychic phenomena has been neither proven nor disproven. The former might be practically impossible. The latter is truly impossible. It's like trying to prove that the contents of a safe are empty when you have no means of opening the safe. How do you test the existence of psychic phenomena? Do you know its rules? Does anybody? Researchers tend to define psychic phenomena on their own terms. I will conclude that one's faith, or lack thereof, must be a personal preference. : : : I myself do not believe in psychic abilities. : : I do, and I'm not going to play the fool's game of citing "evidence." I can't prove I'm not lying, so what's the use of trying to convince you with my stories? : : "Do not waste time trying to convince the sceptic." -A shady mystic with an intense gaze. ;) : : I believe in basic psychic phenomena - telepathy, clairvoyance, and the dreaded business of influencing other minds from a distance that the ordinary senses cannot resolve. I also believe that, like all mental processes, this so-called "extrasensory perception" is bound by rules based on emotion and imagination. I don't pretend to know exactly what they are, but I <i>am</i> sure that garden-variety mystics, in their weird theatrical rituals, do not. The phenomena are of the mind, and so are the rules. : : I am not paranoid about people reading my mind or exerting psychic influence on me, and I do not attempt to depend upon ideas of psychic reference to conduct my life. Therefore, I do not fall within the range of clinical delusion. : : Amusingly, some people might mistake me for a non-believer, because I'm outrightly skeptical of commercial mysticism such as ghost stories, haunted houses, fortune tellers, the Tarot, and astrology. I put no stock whatsoever in people who conduct business in these fields. To any sensible person, commercial mystics cannot avoid being obvious in their intent to lighten the wallets of naive children. There is no way to avoid this. : : As a dominant iNtuitive, I know the difference between the credible and the fake. Credibility does not indicate certainty, of course, but I do know when I've heard bulls**t. The detector is on. : : Here's an analogy that offers no scientific proof whatsoever, though it may help put the realistic possibilities in perspective for some skeptics. A cheap little short-wave band radio "telepathizes." So does a 50-year-old black and white television set. Even the earliest radar and sonar devices can detect objects your unaided senses cannot. These machines are products of the pre-digital era. They have been obsolete for decades. What's so outrageous, or "supernatural," about the suggestion that the human brain <i>might</i> be able to perform similar functions? What's more complex? Your brain, or rudimentary electronics? : : : Second, psychic ability and "iNtuition" can NOT be the same thing. You mean to tell me a dominant iNtuitive, like an INFJ primarily uses psychic powers to navigate through life? : : I'm the INFJ to end all INFJ's, and for me, ESP is just the icing on the cake of life. It's the stuff of rare surprises, and it brings an inspiring aura of faith to my life. : : ^(oo)^

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