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Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup

Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup

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Posted by DEECEE on September 27, 1999 at 21:47:27:

In Reply to: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup posted by johnmerrick on September 27, 1999 at 19:35:21:

: since there are so many posts below on the subject of 4/5 vs. 4/3, i thought it would be easier to respond to all of them in one. (after all, i’m SO important, and each of you is just DYING to hear what i have to say)

: ev -- thanks for the clarification about four/three’s not being faux. no, the presence of three in my personality does not cause me to be fond of business jargon. in fact, i can’t think of many things i hate more than “jargon” of any kind. my thoughts on pretension and presumptuosness make that clear (though i’ve been accused of being passive-aggressive -- my only question in response to that is.....huh?) i have, however pursued business, resulting in great dissatisfaction, and i did start and do currently own a business, which i now hate with intensity. i’ve come to realize that the only way i’ll be “happy” in business is if i make creation and REAL personal expression my work.

: summer -- 4/5 more sensitive and gentle? i don’t think so. both threes and fives can be caustic, alienating, and preoccupied with work or projects over relationships. i’d say whichever wing a four has colors the WAY their sensitivity or lack thereof is expressed.

: cory -- i agree that all fours have different identities....the most different within their own type...but dylan would never choose the identity that jackson has chosen and vice/versa. can you see dylan ever wearing buttless pants as prince does, or prince not grooming
: himself well?

: as for four/five’s being more deep....perhaps in general, but only intellectually. by the way, i appreciate the way many of you mention how much you admire the other type...this seems to be “common”....for the two subtypes to admire one another. (see bob dylan, paul simon)

: just because you enjoy entertaining doesn’t mean you have three traits. beck (who seems to be a four/five to me) loves to entertain, as does bob dylan seem to. i think all fours are somewhat interested in some type of acknowledgement from others. all fours want to be swept away emotionally -- performing in front of hundreds of admirers would certainly
: have that effect.

: amanda -- you have touched on my point exactly.....you “identify” with three, but only superficially. you don’t have “real” three traits or motivations. to emphasize the REAL difference: any of you four/five’s ever been mixed up with a seven? probably not...more likely mistyped as a nine, right? i have never been mistyped as a nine, nor do i see how i could be, though i have been misidentified as a seven. i am at times withdrawn and quiet, but not in the life-denying manner of the four/five. i can easily "identify" with many five traits, but each of those traits i think i may have found can be seen in either the four or the three.

: derf -- i think you have touched on the biggest reason why many fours (perhaps especially four/fives) feel that they “have” both wings. what you say about fours being actors at heart -- pretension is an unhealthy four trait, as well as a three trait. the differences between four/three and four/five are so evident, right from the beginning.

: the easiest way for me to tell the difference is by comparing the artistic work of the two. it just seems that while the work of the four three is often very, very rich and moving (and more accessible to the “common man”), the four/five seems to be able to reach into the void and seize the unimaginable. the work of the four/five has to be studied more...listened to or viewed many times....i find that often i hear the music of a four/five, and at first i think, “i’m just not sure”....but after the fourth or fifth time, i’ve been transported to another world. perhaps that’s more true in my case, since i do not possess
: a five wing....maybe it takes me longer to comprehend it intellectually. when i was a boy, i loved prince and michael jackson. i still do, and they will always (especially michael jackson) be special and important to me. however, as i got older, long before i learned of the enneagram, i began to see what depths lay hidden in the works of the
: four/five.

: this fact is depressing to me, as i feel limited intellectually, thus incapable of everexceeding the greatness of the four/five. oh, well, i’ve always got paul simon and tchaichovsky (sp?) to remind me of the four/three’s potential.

: while this last thought is grossly out of context, i must ask this of deecee and pseudoname and whoever else was involved in the string about everyone on the planet having opportunities: does a child born into starvation and surrounded by war have choices? i’ll answer: yes. he can walk over to that tree and starve, or he can walk over to this other tree and starve, he can go sit by a rock and starve, etc, etc. you guys are
: right!! i don’t feel so bad about the misery in the world after all!! i now realize that my point was indeed SKEWED.

: yes, he has decisions to make, and they all SUCK. so don’t give me your dog crap about everyone having choices.

Aristocrat...Bohemian...my ass...you are supercilious and pedantic....and this dog crap you speak of...the choices people make..goes to the very core of what is human..it's what separates humans ....you talk about children....in a war torn country...wadda you know about what it is to be that child..CHRIST...talk about ivory towers....I dont pretend to know...maybe that starving rock yer talkin about appears in the bathroom mirror of your imagination...or maybe you jsut read about it in the paper...

Follow Ups:

for deecee johnmerrick 22:05:10 9/27/99 (10)
- Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND DEECEE 21:58:09 9/29/99 (9)
  - Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND johnmerrick 22:45:11 9/29/99 (8)
    - Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND DEECEE 01:55:24 9/30/99 (7)
      - Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND johnmerrick 10:35:40 10/01/99 (6)
        
        Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND Ronnie 12:53:25 10/01/99 (5)
        
        for ronnie johnmerrick 02:15:37 10/02/99 (4)
        
        Re: for johnmerrick Ronnie 06:39:57 10/02/99 (2)
        
        Re: for johnmerrick Unknown 22:35:14 12/22/99 (0)
        
        for ronnie, deecee, and anyone else who might care johnmerrick 11:49:28 10/02/99 (0)
        
        Re: for johnmerrick Cecil 03:24:43 10/02/99 (0)

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: : since there are so many posts below on the subject of 4/5 vs. 4/3, i thought it would be easier to respond to all of them in one. (after all, i’m SO important, and each of you is just DYING to hear what i have to say) : : ev -- thanks for the clarification about four/three’s not being faux. no, the presence of three in my personality does not cause me to be fond of business jargon. in fact, i can’t think of many things i hate more than “jargon” of any kind. my thoughts on pretension and presumptuosness make that clear (though i’ve been accused of being passive-aggressive -- my only question in response to that is.....huh?) i have, however pursued business, resulting in great dissatisfaction, and i did start and do currently own a business, which i now hate with intensity. i’ve come to realize that the only way i’ll be “happy” in business is if i make creation and REAL personal expression my work. : : summer -- 4/5 more sensitive and gentle? i don’t think so. both threes and fives can be caustic, alienating, and preoccupied with work or projects over relationships. i’d say whichever wing a four has colors the WAY their sensitivity or lack thereof is expressed. : : cory -- i agree that all fours have different identities....the most different within their own type...but dylan would never choose the identity that jackson has chosen and vice/versa. can you see dylan ever wearing buttless pants as prince does, or prince not grooming : : himself well? : : as for four/five’s being more deep....perhaps in general, but only intellectually. by the way, i appreciate the way many of you mention how much you admire the other type...this seems to be “common”....for the two subtypes to admire one another. (see bob dylan, paul simon) : : just because you enjoy entertaining doesn’t mean you have three traits. beck (who seems to be a four/five to me) loves to entertain, as does bob dylan seem to. i think all fours are somewhat interested in some type of acknowledgement from others. all fours want to be swept away emotionally -- performing in front of hundreds of admirers would certainly : : have that effect. : : amanda -- you have touched on my point exactly.....you “identify” with three, but only superficially. you don’t have “real” three traits or motivations. to emphasize the REAL difference: any of you four/five’s ever been mixed up with a seven? probably not...more likely mistyped as a nine, right? i have never been mistyped as a nine, nor do i see how i could be, though i have been misidentified as a seven. i am at times withdrawn and quiet, but not in the life-denying manner of the four/five. i can easily "identify" with many five traits, but each of those traits i think i may have found can be seen in either the four or the three. : : derf -- i think you have touched on the biggest reason why many fours (perhaps especially four/fives) feel that they “have” both wings. what you say about fours being actors at heart -- pretension is an unhealthy four trait, as well as a three trait. the differences between four/three and four/five are so evident, right from the beginning. : : the easiest way for me to tell the difference is by comparing the artistic work of the two. it just seems that while the work of the four three is often very, very rich and moving (and more accessible to the “common man”), the four/five seems to be able to reach into the void and seize the unimaginable. the work of the four/five has to be studied more...listened to or viewed many times....i find that often i hear the music of a four/five, and at first i think, “i’m just not sure”....but after the fourth or fifth time, i’ve been transported to another world. perhaps that’s more true in my case, since i do not possess : : a five wing....maybe it takes me longer to comprehend it intellectually. when i was a boy, i loved prince and michael jackson. i still do, and they will always (especially michael jackson) be special and important to me. however, as i got older, long before i learned of the enneagram, i began to see what depths lay hidden in the works of the : : four/five. : : this fact is depressing to me, as i feel limited intellectually, thus incapable of everexceeding the greatness of the four/five. oh, well, i’ve always got paul simon and tchaichovsky (sp?) to remind me of the four/three’s potential. : : while this last thought is grossly out of context, i must ask this of deecee and pseudoname and whoever else was involved in the string about everyone on the planet having opportunities: does a child born into starvation and surrounded by war have choices? i’ll answer: yes. he can walk over to that tree and starve, or he can walk over to this other tree and starve, he can go sit by a rock and starve, etc, etc. you guys are : : right!! i don’t feel so bad about the misery in the world after all!! i now realize that my point was indeed SKEWED. : : yes, he has decisions to make, and they all SUCK. so don’t give me your dog crap about everyone having choices. : Aristocrat...Bohemian...my ass...you are supercilious and pedantic....and this dog crap you speak of...the choices people make..goes to the very core of what is human..it's what separates humans ....you talk about children....in a war torn country...wadda you know about what it is to be that child..CHRIST...talk about ivory towers....I dont pretend to know...maybe that starving rock yer talkin about appears in the bathroom mirror of your imagination...or maybe you jsut read about it in the paper...

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