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Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup

Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup

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Posted by Ev on September 28, 1999 at 17:04:04:

In Reply to: Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup posted by PseudoName on September 27, 1999 at 22:20:31:

: Bad logic. Because choice is present, does not make the world black and white and all's fair. OF COURSE there are atrocities... OF COURSE there are arenas where all the external choices are bad ones. You are still master of your own mind.
: You can die on your knees, or you can die upright. Which would you rather? If choice were not an option, perhaps the Judaic peoples would have laid down and died, rather than fight for the right to their own country... perhaps apartheid would still be the norm in S. Africa - perhaps, perhaps. The will is an incredible thing. Externalities aside, people have choices. You determine what you will be. Then you be that. Whether you're going to starve in the next five minutes or rule the world, you have a choice as to who you ARE. You can split hairs until the moon turns purple... choice is still a factor. That's where these little human jewels like courage and principle originate.

Hello PN,

By Jove, I believe I see a Purple Moon a'Risin'! (Why does this remind me of a Creedance song?)

>Have you ever read Invictus? Blake wrote this when he was post-op after his leg was amputated...

>"Through the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole
I thank whatever gods there be, for my unconquerable soul."

>the poem goes on, but you get the gist. It closes with,
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."

Nice poetry, profound message, maybe a bit misguided. I can agree with all the above with the exception of: "I am the master of my fate,". Maybe yes, maybe no, but most probably "no* will win the day. Try as we may to "become what we envision and believe in our hearts" there are external factors which are subject to thwart our attainment of our our destiny. Belief in yourself *can* go a long way toward getting you there, but the rest of the world is in play as well. I may see my fate as being fulfilled in being a track and field star until some addled, drunken bastard removes my legs with the fender of his Buick. Now, at this point, I can *choose* to think "happy thoughts" but I can't "choose" to fulfill my "destiny". Outside factors, which I couldn't account for, have effectively robbed me. I still have "free will" but it's not completely free. It's always limited by the options available for me to exercise. Anything beyond this is just high-minded, albeit comforting, talk.

Ev (Captain of my soul)

Follow Ups:

Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup Aen 05:19:33 10/01/99 (2)
- for aen johnmerrick 10:33:00 10/01/99 (0)
- Re: the aristocrat, the bohemian, and thoughts on chicken soup Ev 08:35:31 10/01/99 (0)
No, no no... PseudoName 02:32:51 9/30/99 (1)
- Re: No, no no... Ev 07:58:25 9/30/99 (0)
exactly johnmerrick 22:07:49 9/28/99 (1)
- Re: exactly Ev 07:42:04 9/29/99 (0)

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: : : Bad logic. Because choice is present, does not make the world black and white and all's fair. OF COURSE there are atrocities... OF COURSE there are arenas where all the external choices are bad ones. You are still master of your own mind. : : You can die on your knees, or you can die upright. Which would you rather? If choice were not an option, perhaps the Judaic peoples would have laid down and died, rather than fight for the right to their own country... perhaps apartheid would still be the norm in S. Africa - perhaps, perhaps. The will is an incredible thing. Externalities aside, people have choices. You determine what you will be. Then you be that. Whether you're going to starve in the next five minutes or rule the world, you have a choice as to who you ARE. You can split hairs until the moon turns purple... choice is still a factor. That's where these little human jewels like courage and principle originate. : Hello PN, : By Jove, I believe I see a Purple Moon a'Risin'! (Why does this remind me of a Creedance song?) : >Have you ever read Invictus? Blake wrote this when he was post-op after his leg was amputated... : >"Through the night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole : I thank whatever gods there be, for my unconquerable soul." : >the poem goes on, but you get the gist. It closes with, : "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." : Nice poetry, profound message, maybe a bit misguided. I can agree with all the above with the exception of: "I am the master of my fate,". Maybe yes, maybe no, but most probably "no* will win the day. Try as we may to "become what we envision and believe in our hearts" there are external factors which are subject to thwart our attainment of our our destiny. Belief in yourself *can* go a long way toward getting you there, but the rest of the world is in play as well. I may see my fate as being fulfilled in being a track and field star until some addled, drunken bastard removes my legs with the fender of his Buick. Now, at this point, I can *choose* to think "happy thoughts" but I can't "choose" to fulfill my "destiny". Outside factors, which I couldn't account for, have effectively robbed me. I still have "free will" but it's not completely free. It's always limited by the options available for me to exercise. Anything beyond this is just high-minded, albeit comforting, talk. : Ev (Captain of my soul)

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