Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND

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Posted by johnmerrick on September 29, 1999 at 22:45:11:

In Reply to: Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND posted by DEECEE on September 29, 1999 at 21:58:09:

i didn't ask you whether or not i was a one. i asked you whether or not you were SAYING that i was a one.

i am angry not that you challenged my "sense" of morality, but that you seem to be callous to suffering and blind to the truth. you say that i seem pompous and closed-minded. pompous, yes. closed-minded, no. i feel strongly about my beliefs, as do you, obviously. i must say that your words give me the same impression. HOWEVER -- i know that is most likely not true, and i would actually love to discuss this as decent humans. i apologize for my "aristocracy". if you're interested, let me start by asking a few questions.

why do i have to "imagine" what it is like to be "that child" in order to see very plainly that he is suffering?

what does the statement "all existence is fact" have to do with anything? my point was that he is plainly suffering, and that is a fact. i don't quite understand how stating that "all existence is a fact" contradicts, negates, or disproves this.

why is it funny that i use the word "disgustingly"?

i must also apologize for making the statement that his existence disproves your belief in a theory that allows you to sleep better at night. you are right, it was unfair to draw that conclusion.

i agree that everyone has the ability to rely upon themselves and to be determined. my only point, which i'm sure has been clouded by my venomous remarks, is that the choices that they are presented with are not always good, as the choices could simply be "which way do i want to die". that seems to me to be unfair and "disgusting". it's a source of pain for me every day that *I* have a good life, while others get the "shaft". i feel for them, and i sometimes wish i could take their place.

i am indeed a four...there is no doubt. my three wing is to blame for some of my "ivory tower" qualities, no doubt. i would say the four/three is aptly nicknamed "the aristocrat". you are a four/five, correct?

and determination

: I don't see how you can make those two connections...about me..with what I've written to you....

:
: you have to have an answer to why there is suffering,

: I DON'T...I agree there is suffering in this world...
: But it is not my job to answer to this....I can certainly help to alleviate it....when it is apparent...or justified..or within my realm...but I dont have to answer for it...

: and yours is just what i described it as...crap. it has no basis in fact, truth, or reason.

: I really am stunned that this is hard for you or anyone to grasp...that there is the ability for self reliance and self determination for everyone...I mean if your scenario were true...all people who were hungry at night would die of starvation...or all people who live with armies of great might, camped near their doorstep would surrender...or all oppressed people would readily give into oppression....
: There are many "bad hands" dealt in life...and this world is certainly something to be wary of...but it's not the bleak place that you portray...
: Human beings would have killed "themselves" off a long time ago if that were the case....

: you will never see it, and your next post, if you choose to write one, will consist of defending your baseless, moronic claim..

: I see your point..I said that the first time I responded ..You are just very different from me in the way I look at things...thats all...

: .it will make you feel better to vindicate yourself somehow by pointing out some "superciliousness" on my part, so that you don't have to think about your own responsibility to find out what must be done to alleviate suffering.

: NAH...I DO THINK YOU HAVE A LITTLE "ASSHOLE" IN YOU THO

: : the child starving next to a rock is in my imagination? where do you live? do you have a television? do you read the news? yes, the only way i know of such atrocities is by 'reading the paper'. does this make it false? shall we now debate about whether or not there was a holocaust? are you blind?

: YOU SOUND LIKE A ONE
: DEECEE

Follow Ups:

Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND DEECEE 01:55:24 9/30/99 (7)
- Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND johnmerrick 10:35:40 10/01/99 (6)
  - Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND Ronnie 12:53:25 10/01/99 (5)
    - for ronnie johnmerrick 02:15:37 10/02/99 (4)
      - Re: for johnmerrick Ronnie 06:39:57 10/02/99 (2)
        
        Re: for johnmerrick Unknown 22:35:14 12/22/99 (0)
        
        for ronnie, deecee, and anyone else who might care johnmerrick 11:49:28 10/02/99 (0)
      - Re: for johnmerrick Cecil 03:24:43 10/02/99 (0)

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: i didn't ask you whether or not i was a one. i asked you whether or not you were SAYING that i was a one. : i am angry not that you challenged my "sense" of morality, but that you seem to be callous to suffering and blind to the truth. you say that i seem pompous and closed-minded. pompous, yes. closed-minded, no. i feel strongly about my beliefs, as do you, obviously. i must say that your words give me the same impression. HOWEVER -- i know that is most likely not true, and i would actually love to discuss this as decent humans. i apologize for my "aristocracy". if you're interested, let me start by asking a few questions. : why do i have to "imagine" what it is like to be "that child" in order to see very plainly that he is suffering? : what does the statement "all existence is fact" have to do with anything? my point was that he is plainly suffering, and that is a fact. i don't quite understand how stating that "all existence is a fact" contradicts, negates, or disproves this. : why is it funny that i use the word "disgustingly"? : : i must also apologize for making the statement that his existence disproves your belief in a theory that allows you to sleep better at night. you are right, it was unfair to draw that conclusion. : i agree that everyone has the ability to rely upon themselves and to be determined. my only point, which i'm sure has been clouded by my venomous remarks, is that the choices that they are presented with are not always good, as the choices could simply be "which way do i want to die". that seems to me to be unfair and "disgusting". it's a source of pain for me every day that *I* have a good life, while others get the "shaft". i feel for them, and i sometimes wish i could take their place. : i am indeed a four...there is no doubt. my three wing is to blame for some of my "ivory tower" qualities, no doubt. i would say the four/three is aptly nicknamed "the aristocrat". you are a four/five, correct? : : and determination : : I don't see how you can make those two connections...about me..with what I've written to you.... : : : : you have to have an answer to why there is suffering, : : I DON'T...I agree there is suffering in this world... : : But it is not my job to answer to this....I can certainly help to alleviate it....when it is apparent...or justified..or within my realm...but I dont have to answer for it... : : and yours is just what i described it as...crap. it has no basis in fact, truth, or reason. : : I really am stunned that this is hard for you or anyone to grasp...that there is the ability for self reliance and self determination for everyone...I mean if your scenario were true...all people who were hungry at night would die of starvation...or all people who live with armies of great might, camped near their doorstep would surrender...or all oppressed people would readily give into oppression.... : : There are many "bad hands" dealt in life...and this world is certainly something to be wary of...but it's not the bleak place that you portray... : : Human beings would have killed "themselves" off a long time ago if that were the case.... : : you will never see it, and your next post, if you choose to write one, will consist of defending your baseless, moronic claim.. : : I see your point..I said that the first time I responded ..You are just very different from me in the way I look at things...thats all... : : .it will make you feel better to vindicate yourself somehow by pointing out some "superciliousness" on my part, so that you don't have to think about your own responsibility to find out what must be done to alleviate suffering. : : NAH...I DO THINK YOU HAVE A LITTLE "ASSHOLE" IN YOU THO : : : the child starving next to a rock is in my imagination? where do you live? do you have a television? do you read the news? yes, the only way i know of such atrocities is by 'reading the paper'. does this make it false? shall we now debate about whether or not there was a holocaust? are you blind? : : YOU SOUND LIKE A ONE : : DEECEE

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