Posted by Ronnie on October 01, 1999 at 12:53:25:
In Reply to: Re: HOWLING INTO THE WIND posted by johnmerrick on October 01, 1999 at 10:35:40:
: i see. we obviously have nothing else to talk about.
Ok, then I'll talk to you.
First you read something in DEECEE's message that isn't there "Are you suggesting I'm a one". He tells you his opinion, "maybe you are" and then asks for your opinion. What's so hard to digest about that?
I can understand why DEECEE don't want to waste time with you, so maybe I'll just answer your questions, some of which were answered already--you just happened to miss it in your "aristocraziness" (yes, spelled like that on purpose)
jm: "why do i have to "imagine" what it is like to be "that child" in order to see very plainly that he is suffering?"
As DEECEE said, it wasn't the point. You just sounded to him as though you were trying to tell us what it feels like to be that little kid, even though you don't have the experience.
jm: "what does the statement "all existence is fact" have to do with anything? my point was that he is plainly suffering, and that is a fact. i don't quite understand how stating that "all existence is a fact" contradicts, negates, or disproves this."
How about "reinforces". Of course it must be a new experience to you that someone tries to look for a common ground with you and agrees with you.
jm: why is it funny that i use the word "disgustingly"?
I'll answer for that: "disgusting" is a word used when you describe mouldy vegetables or fresh shit between your toes. It sort of reflects that you're being very subjective and dealing with this very emotionally, not rationally.
jm: "his existence disproves your belief in a theory that allows you to sleep better at night."
I think I have a similar opinion about this as DEECEE does, everyone gets their share of suffering in their lives and everyone has the choices within the framework of their life. That's not a theory, it's a fact. The choices I can make are different than yours, but it doesn't mean there wouldn't be any. I don't understand why I should lose sleep over it, would it make me a better person? It sounds very unhealthily twoish to me. Furthermore, what DEECEE said about the answer for suffering and helping people:
"I DON'T...I agree there is suffering in this world...
But it is not my job to answer to this....I can certainly help to alleviate it....when it is apparent...or justified..or within my realm...but I dont have to answer for it..."
We're not omnipotent, johnmerrick and feeling bad about it just drives you nuts.
You sound so incredibly pretentious, johnmerrick. "Oh, I do no sleep at night because I feel the pain of the suffering people so deeply in my heart!" Don't you have a life of your own? Does this "co-suffering" make you a better person? Maybe doing what DEECEE does, helping in the ways you can would be better than "feeling bad" about something you can do nothing about? Besides that, your messages sound like you're a person who's "terribly concerned about something" but doesn't do anything.
Quoting again:
"I really am stunned that this is hard for you or anyone to grasp...that there is the ability for self reliance and self determination for everyone...I mean if your scenario were true...all people who were hungry at night would die of starvation...or all people who live with armies of great might, camped near their doorstep would surrender...or all oppressed people would readily give into oppression....
There are many "bad hands" dealt in life...and this world is certainly something to be wary of...but it's not the bleak place that you portray...
Human beings would have killed "themselves" off a long time ago if that were the case...."
I think that just about sums it up.
(Just for the record, DEECEE is an 8w7)
Ronnie