Previous Threads--Antidepressents and why fours help others

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: Just wanted to respond to two threads from late September. : (1) Ev asked if anybody was on antidepressants and what the physiological/psychological effect was? : My response is just an FYI--wanted you guys to be in the know. : Something I just found out the other day from a person being treated for debilitating panic attacks. True, depression is the malady for us fours, while anxiety and panic attacks really affect the nines. But six years ago, a series of panic attacks I suffered over a two week period suddenly shifted in clinical depression that lasted the better part of that year. I spend endless hours and lots of money trying in vain to understand the psychological reason behind why I was suddenly depressed. I don't regret my joining activities, taking a trip, researching herbs, journal writing and discovering the Enneagram--all of these things have changed me for the better and the depression did eventually lift, but I never knew what psychological thing caused it. By the way, my regular doctor put me on Xanax for one week not know what I had but suspecting it was something psychological rather than physical. : So all these years go by. Then a person I know comes down with panic attacks, but unlike me, she goes to her doctor to rule out the physical, and then heads straight to a qualified psychiatrist. He puts on her the prescription of choice for panic attacks--Paxal--and says "if she does not go on it for a few months, those panic attacks will automatically convert to clinical depression. She relayed all this to me. Imagine my shock--that there was never anything psychological wrong with me, that I was clinically depressed all that time simply because I didn't properly treat the panic, which did have a physical and psychological cause I did become aware of. : So why do I tell you all this? Because fours are prone to depression. But if you ever find yourself suffering a panic attack (which is a pretty scary experience let me tell you) which can feel like a heart attack, go on paxal, because I wouldn't want you to become clinically depressed and then mistakenly believe it's my four defectiveness coming to fruition. IT WILL NOT BE your four issues causing this particular clinical depression. : Just wanted to save you the months of grief I went through trying to psychoanalyze myself and then feeling suicidal. : : (2) On why fours help others, as opposed to why twos help others: : It was said the respondents that two motive for helping others is to feel needed by the person they help; the healthy two doesn't expect a return favor. The unhealthy two expects a return compliment, favor, even though they do not overtly say so. They are expecting you to pick up the cue. Best way to respond, don't make the overt gesture that the two made--simply thank them in the understatedly elegant way we fours can be. For if you go out of your way to return the favor to the unhealthy two, they won't necessarily appreciate it--in fact they might get red hot mad at you, because they are the only ones entitled to bestow favors upon others, and by your return the favor, you have taken away their that special entitlement reserved for them. Go figure, but its true. I am well versed in the subject because my mother and grandmother are unhealthy twos and trying to mold my sister into a clone of them. Also, much of this is described in the Enneagram books. : Fours, on the other hand, give to others to understand themselves. When we give to others, the mere fact that they say so "thank you" to us with real gratitude, makes us realize in that moment that if someone else is complimenting us, we can't really be defective (the four fear). This is why one of the recommendations given to us in the Enneagram books is "to go out there and give of yourself to others in a career or voluntary way"--it helps to understand ourselves by making us realize we are special and are not the defective beings we think we are. Another nifty thing about four giving--unlike two giving, there's hardly ever a chance of getting back bad flak from the person you give to (unless its to an unhealthy two) because your underlying motive, to understand yourself (and not to get anything in return), can't be fathomed by the recipient. It comes off as saint like, and it is really because "to understand yourself" is not a selfish motive. Sure you can argue this point, but when you weight the value of the intrinsic gift you bestow on another to make their lives just a little bit better, to simply take back your own understanding in return isn't asking for too much. Besides, when a four gets back some of their own self-knowledge and twin component, self worth, it only motivates the four to go back out and give some more--another benefit to society.--Jay

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