Re: Thanks comments

Posted by Tiggy on October 24, 1999 at 11:17:55:

In Reply to: Thanks posted by Cory on October 23, 1999 at 21:04:12:

"I'm not willing to surrender my perception of the world which to me feels true, into something I can't believe."

Isn't this the problem with Type, that we all have specific perceptions of the world which we obstinately cling to despite the fact that it has a) caused us problems, and b) many other people cling just as determinedly to their perceptions, maintaining them to be the sole truth? Doesn't the Enneagram say that each Type has part of the truth, like in the story of the blind men and the elephant, where each has hold of a different part, (trunk, leg, ear) and each has a very different picture of what an elephant must be like?

The above also relates to a comment of yours lower down, which I found dissapointingly childish, namely,

"I think all ESTJ's should be killed....Stalin was an ESTJ."

And

"proud ESTJ-Basher"

These comments are blatantly rascist. If we acknowledge that large parts of humanity are either born as ESTJ's or become like this through parenting, upbringing etc., then it differs little from criticising someone or indeed, hating someone, on the basis of their racial origins or culture. To cite that Stalin was an ESTJ with the implication that therefore all ESTJ's must be bad, is not only absurd, but is typical of many rascist arguments. Many psychopaths are Sixes, but many good people are sixes too. I'm surprised at your naivety and lack of your usual intelligence in this matter. As the opposite of the type you are yourself, you being INFP I believe, according to Enneagram theory and the work of the Jungian analyst and colleague of Jung, Marie Louise von Franz it represents the parts of yourself which you have repressed, the parts you have problems with. First get the beam out of your own eye!

"underused and underdeveloped, least under the deliberate control of the conscious mind of the
individual, and more apt to be, for that individual, a mechanism for the expression of
the UNCONSCIOUS and thus part of any 'neurosis' that the individual may have." Enneagram Monthly.

"the exact opposite of my Jungian dominant will be that which is deepest in my unconsciousness and most
obsessive to me." Enneagram Monthly.

You do have a point in that the ESTJ type predominates in your culture, perhaps not in mine, and so feel in the oppressed minority. I'll e-mail you some parts of an article that relates to this bias as it's quite long.
However that is no excuse to play the victim rather than the pioneer. I too tend to get scapegoated but have the responsibility not to put myself in positions and predicaments where that can happen, and not to accept other people's projections. And it certainly isn't always ESTJs that I've been scape-goated by.

Could you please tell me which parts of the following set of descriptions you have a problem with.
Remember, if you feel someone is in some sense inferior to you or less developed, then you should have compassion for them; they cannot help their level of consciousness, and may have qualities you have missed. Hating is the worst character trait I have come across, it has nothing to give to the world and is usually the result of self-loathing projected outwards.

EXTROVERTED persons are attuned to the culture, people, and things around them, endeavoring to make decisions congruent with demands and expectations. The extrovert is outgoing, socially free, interested in variety and in working with people. The extrovert may become impatient with long, slow tasks and does not mind being interrupted by people.
The SENSING type prefers the concrete, real, factual, structured, tangible here-and-now, becoming impatient with theory and the abstract, mistrusting intuition. The sensing type think in careful, detail-by-detail accuracy, remembering real facts, making few errors of fact, but possibly missing a conception of the overall.
The THINKING makes judgments about life, people, occurrences, and things based on logic, analysis, and evidence, avoiding the irrationality of making decisions based on feelings and values. As a result, the thinker is more interested in logic, analysis, and verifiable conclusions than in empathy, va1ues, and persona1 warmth. The thinker may step on others' feelings and needs without realizing it, neglecting to take into consideration the values of others
The JUDGER is decisive, firm, and sure, setting goals and sticking to them. The judger wants to close books. make decisions. and get on to the next project. When a project does not yet have closure, judgers will leave it behind and go on to new tasks and not look back.

I can sense you getting into a sulk - so don't! What drew THIS negative outburst? Did your parents tell you off? 'Proud' is the word - this pride is counterphobic.

Love Tiggy - direct, rude but caring.

Follow Ups:

• ESTJ = Evil Sadistic Total Jerk Cory 16:31:24 10/24/99 (1)
  • Re: Bigoted Types. Tiggy. 17:39:12 10/24/99 (0)

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