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Enneagram Type 5 Board Archive Re: 5s wings and things...Posted by Elizabeth on December 20, 2000 at 18:36:33: In Reply to: 5s wings and things... posted by isaacthe54 on December 20, 2000 at 15:29:33: : i'm bummed about missing out so horribly on this big thread below, and the physical attractiveness thing kinda buried it, so i'm just gonna try and sum up my thoughts on this in a new thread. I'm glad you picked this back up. Now I have more material for comparing/contrasting myself (5w4) to my two closest friends (both 5w6). Sometimes the differences are very striking. BTW, I can only think of two 5w4 people I have known in my entire life. Is it just me or are there a lot more 5w6 than 5w4? : a common misinterpretation is that 54s are more emotional. it's not that they're more emotional, but their emotions have more of a passionate expressive character. a 5 is a 5, and no 5 will likely admit to being governed by their emotions, and no 5 does the bulk of their "thinking" with their emotional center. every 5 represses their feelings (in varying degrees with health, situation, etc.), regardless of their wing. I think that since fiveness has no tools for dealing with emotion, the subtypes lean heavily on their respective wings in this regard. As a result, emotion and empathy are key distinctions between the subtypes. As a five, I don't often feel much of anything but when I do, my feelings are deep, private, and powerful like a four. My 5w6 friends are much more empathetic (tuned in to the emotions of others). They worry that they lack sensitivity to the feelings of others. They definitely have more trouble with guilt. (Though 5w4 may have more trouble with shame.) : i'll try to point out some possible differences in the 2 brands of 5, since it seems like that's what the thread was really about mostly. (i've been trying really ahrd to wrap my brain around the 56 mentality since i learned about the enneagram, mind you, and have only had good studying material in the last year or so, so this is kinda rough yet. please offer yer opinions, too) i'll also go into some interesting thoughts on the differences between subtypes in general. : it makes sense to contrast the 6 and 4 types briefly, wrt their effect on a 5 as a wing. (i know it sorta sounds like i'm buying into the "wing is a thing" paradigm here, and generally that paradigm is just false and useless, but just walk with me for a while.) if you're a 5, your wing is necessarily in the honesty obsession group (864). therefor, it seems that the way that a 5 deals withthe concept of truth/honest/etc is greatly colored by its wing. also, a big difference between a 4 and a 6 is that 4 is in the self-image triad whereas 6 is in the fear triad (and is the primary type of it). another difference between 6 and 4 is that 6 is in the people/society focus group and 4 is in the internal reflection focus group. : i have been working on a theory about "resonant" qualities between the main type and the wing, and their affect on a personality. i'm not sure that it's done or even useful, but i think that's an interesting thing to mention, because it really does point out what differences there may be between the two subtypes of a type. basically, the resonant qualities of a 56 would be all of the triads that 5 has in common with 6, and likewise for a 54. the really interesting thing to note is that there's always exactly 1 resonant quality for each type. in secondary types, however, the rq is different based on wing, whereas in primary types, it's always that they share the base motivation of their wing. : real quickly, the triads: : OBSESSION : FOCUS : when i talk abotu qualities of a type, i'm talking about these 3 sets of triads. : the resonant quality in a 56 is the base motivator of fear. the rq in a 54 is the focus on internal reflection. both 4 and 6 are in the obsession group of honesty. the 4 type is obsessed with being true to one's own nature and the nature of reality. 6 is obsessed with being trustworthy and avoiding/destroying hypocrisy. : (a reflection on this reflection thing... often writers make the horrible mistake of calling 459 the "withdrawn" group. 98s are among the most social and bubbly people i know. 54s are way more outspoken and socially aggressive, as a general rule, than 56s are, but a 54 shoudl be more withdrawn. the word withdrawn has too many connotations that have nothing to do with what actually is in common between 45&9.) 5w6 are more "shy". 5w4 are more "quiet". You are very right about 5w4 being capable of being outspoken and socially aggressive. (Which can be very confusing to others since being generally "quiet" is often interpreted as sweet, gentle, needing to be coaxed out, etc.) I don't think we are concerned much at all with the opinions of anyone but ourselves. : the resonant quality has a lot to do with putting a spin on the 5 qualities. 5s are obsessed with their intellectual performance. a 56's resonance with fear colors this by making them typicaly fear insanity. not just fearing insanity, but sometimes to the point of simply accepting that they are probably living in an insane asylum. 54s, i've noticed, sometimes simply accept that they are smart, fear being stupid, but are very concerned with their self-image as an intelligent person. they need to "feel" like they are smart a lot more than i think 56s tend to. i could be misconstruing this a bit. it's a tricky subject that i really need to investigate further. I think 5w4 are more likely to relying on their own internal judgement for determing the value of their intelligence. This can lead to being very self-critical of mistakes. 5w6 seem to mark their intelligence more by external sources: the feedback and validation of others, physical proof of accomplishment, etc. That's why they are problem solvers; completing a project validates their sense of self-worth. : it's also interesting ot mention that 6 is in the society focus group, whereas both 5 and 4 are focused on internal reflection. while one might think that this means that 56s are more "social", it's clearly not the case. while a 54 is possibly more afraid of making an ass of himself, 56s seem to have a better understanding of what's actually going on, and thus be even more afraid of making a mistake somewhere. most of my social graces, and other 54s i know, are a brand of dumb luck; i just happen to seem interested enough in someone that they like having me around. there's no skill there, but to an unknowing observer, it might seem that a 54 was typically more socially dynamic and engaged than a 56. Again, "quiet" vs. "shy". 5w4 don't play social games because they don't make sense. 5w6 don't play social games because they are unsuccessful at them. : a 56 and a 54 both want truth, partly by virtue of their wing always being in the truth obsession group. (you could even make a "secondary obsession" characteristic for all the secondary types, since both wings always ahve this in common.) but the nature of the truth that 54s and 56s want is pretty differetn. it's hard to explain, tho. hmm... i guess the main difference is that 56s want a set of rules and systems that work all the time so they can use them. 54s was truth for the sheer beauty of knowing how it works. Process vs. product. 5w4 the process is it's own end? 5w6 process all about accomplishing something useful. This goes back to external or internal means of validating the self. : basically, i don't have a really good working theory of how wings work. i know that most of the prevailing theories are wrong, however. it's a really difficult thing to put into words, but somehow makes the whole system work. if you're confused about what wing you might have, the biggest mistake to make is "well, i'm a 5, and not much like a 6, so i must have a 4 wing". 56s aren't 6s. 54s aren't 4s. not even a little. there's just 2 kinds of 5, and they're just different enough to be differetn personality types. if you are confused about your wing, the best thing you can do is read and think about it as much as possible. also, a lot of things about the enneagram don't really *click* until you can look at an example of a personality type. i'm sure that spiderman is a 54, and i think superman is a 56 (in a bunch of versions of the story he's a 1 or an 8, but i think those are just bad, cause clark kent is certainly neither of those, and it's the >same guy<, and also comicbook superman did lots of 56ish things. he's just super-integrated when he's got the red and blue suit on.) : isaac
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