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wings and tests

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Posted by isaacthe54 on February 13, 2001 at 14:43:20:

In Reply to: 5w6 posted by bri on February 13, 2001 at 10:38:54:

well, she is not a 27, no matter what any test says. since you seem new at this, let me be the first to vehemently excalaim to you...
ENNEAGRAM TESTS ARE EVIL!!!!
they're evil that is somewhat useful in some very specialized situations, but they are very very very VERY evil, and their sometime usefullness just serves to make them even more insidious. don't ever place any value on an enneagram test. it's like getting directions from a drunk idiot in a foriegn country, and that's the good tests. the bad tests are like getting directions from a sober person who didn't hear where you were trying to get to and is specifically is trying to send you nowhere. what's more, they are worse the more power you give them. if you ever refer to an enneagram test as "the test" (as in, the one that is "right"), immediately smack yourself in the face hard.

here's why...
good tests (i like the rheti and the duniho tests best, myself) are built up around a fairly good understanding of the system of the enneagram. also, a good test will tell you straight out the limits of its usefulness, and it is up to you to use it properly. never EVER assume a test is an authority. in order to use a test well, you need to also have a fair understanding of the system itself. bad tests are built up around a superficial (or just plain *wrong*) understanding of the system and reduce the beautiful and elegant and useful system of the enneagram to a zodiac-esque parlor game. basically, if you know enough to use the tests properly, then you probably don't need them.

ps- my wife scored equally as a 2 and 7. is this typical? i was under the impression that your type/subtype usually fell adjacent on the "wheel". not that rules are hard and fast...

actually, that rule IS hard and fast. it's a topic of debate, to be certain, but it is not debated by those with a really deep and thorough understanding fo the system. read your riso, your dobson and hurley, ichazo, even helen palmer makes it thru this fact accurately. you have exactly one type and wing. the wing is one of the two types next to your main type. there are exactly 18 personality types. if it sounds like i'm limiting things, it's cause i am. if you're not cool with limiting personality into groups, then abandon all hope of using the enneagram, becasue this is the fundamental assumption it makes. we could start a thread talking about why this assumption is perfectly reasonable, but that's not what we're talking about right now.

your wife is either a 2 or a 7 or any other type, as far as i know. but, regardless of the results of ANY test, she has a personality type (assuming she's a human person) and that type is on the enneagram somewhere. if she's a 2, she's either a 23 or a 21; if a 7, either a 78 or a 76. she's exactly one of the 18 possibilities; not a 7 with 6 and 8 wings. one type, one wing. a 72 is an odd concept that wouldn't work as a human personality. key human psychological factors would be conflicting or unaccounted for. same goes for a 2(31). the wings really do make sense once you get a better grasp of the system as a whole. (since you claim to be a 5, i'd put my money on her being a 7 rather than a 2, just cause of the 57 archetypical bond, and the 52 archetypical repulsion, but those are the sort of rules that aren't hard and fast, especially with 56s. of course, for all i know, you're a 65 and she's a 98.)

i dont' mean to sound abrasive or angry about this. if anything, this message is an attempt to steer you in the right direction before you get off course and figure that the enneagram is a useless system because it doesnt' seem to describe people right, when actually you have just been misled by faulty info.

begun to familiarize myself with the other type descriptions and have begun to analyze my friends and family.
that's good. reading books is not enough to understand each of the types, tho you *should* read books, and lots of them. look at where authors differ, and try to figure out why. look at how different organization of types seems to make sense and what traits are shared by which types. find people of each type, and look for patterns. try to analyze why they do what they do and care about what they care about. only when you understand a person of a type will you really understand the type; only when you understadn a type will you really understand people of that type. it's a working system that needs to be worked to be perfected.

isaac the 54

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Re: wings and tests bri 11:41:23 02/14/01 (0)

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: : well, she is not a 27, no matter what any test says. since you seem new at this, let me be the first to vehemently excalaim to you... : <big>ENNEAGRAM TESTS ARE EVIL!!!!</big> : they're evil that is somewhat useful in some very specialized situations, but they are very very very VERY evil, and their sometime usefullness just serves to make them even more insidious. don't ever place any value on an enneagram test. it's like getting directions from a drunk idiot in a foriegn country, and that's the good tests. the bad tests are like getting directions from a sober person who didn't hear where you were trying to get to and is specifically is trying to send you nowhere. what's more, they are worse the more power you give them. if you ever refer to an enneagram test as "the test" (as in, the one that is "right"), immediately smack yourself in the face hard. : here's why... : good tests (i like the rheti and the duniho tests best, myself) are built up around a fairly good understanding of the system of the enneagram. also, a good test will tell you straight out the limits of its usefulness, and it is up to you to use it properly. never EVER assume a test is an authority. in order to use a test well, you need to also have a fair understanding of the system itself. bad tests are built up around a superficial (or just plain *wrong*) understanding of the system and reduce the beautiful and elegant and useful system of the enneagram to a zodiac-esque parlor game. basically, if you know enough to use the tests properly, then you probably don't need them. : ps- my wife scored equally as a 2 and 7. is this typical? i was under the impression that your type/subtype usually fell adjacent on the "wheel". not that rules are hard and fast... : actually, that rule IS hard and fast. it's a topic of debate, to be certain, but it is not debated by those with a really deep and thorough understanding fo the system. read your riso, your dobson and hurley, ichazo, even helen palmer makes it thru this fact accurately. you have exactly one type and wing. the wing is one of the two types next to your main type. there are exactly 18 personality types. if it sounds like i'm limiting things, it's cause i am. if you're not cool with limiting personality into groups, then abandon all hope of using the enneagram, becasue this is the fundamental assumption it makes. we could start a thread talking about why this assumption is perfectly reasonable, but that's not what we're talking about right now. : your wife is either a 2 or a 7 or any other type, as far as i know. but, regardless of the results of ANY test, she has a personality type (assuming she's a human person) and that type is on the enneagram somewhere. if she's a 2, she's either a 23 or a 21; if a 7, either a 78 or a 76. she's exactly one of the 18 possibilities; not a 7 with 6 and 8 wings. one type, one wing. a 72 is an odd concept that wouldn't work as a human personality. key human psychological factors would be conflicting or unaccounted for. same goes for a 2(31). the wings really do make sense once you get a better grasp of the system as a whole. (since you claim to be a 5, i'd put my money on her being a 7 rather than a 2, just cause of the 57 archetypical bond, and the 52 archetypical repulsion, but those are the sort of rules that aren't hard and fast, especially with 56s. of course, for all i know, you're a 65 and she's a 98.) : i dont' mean to sound abrasive or angry about this. if anything, this message is an attempt to steer you in the right direction before you get off course and figure that the enneagram is a useless system because it doesnt' seem to describe people right, when actually you have just been misled by faulty info. : begun to familiarize myself with the other type descriptions and have begun to analyze my friends and family. : that's good. reading books is not enough to understand each of the types, tho you *should* read books, and lots of them. look at where authors differ, and try to figure out why. look at how different organization of types seems to make sense and what traits are shared by which types. find people of each type, and look for patterns. try to analyze why they do what they do and care about what they care about. only when you understand a person of a type will you really understand the type; only when you understadn a type will you really understand people of that type. it's a working system that needs to be worked to be perfected. : isaac the 54

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