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Re: Typing and gender

Re: Typing and gender

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Posted by Laurence on August 09, 2000 at 08:33:54:

In Reply to: Re: Typing and gender posted by Zen Cowgirl on August 06, 2000 at 16:08:54:

I agree, although here in Europe, assertive women may gain professional respect, but they so often end up alone for most men are scared of an intimate relationship with a strong woman. And I am not ready to fit in the stereotyped image just not to be alone. Yes I do feel androgeneous in my head and I seek a real mature relationship with a man, not a "fill-up fix".

: : here a few thoughts on typing and gender drawn from my own experience and observations. Ther is indeed a strong cultural influence uppon self-image, and self-image is something built by our subconscious to fulfill specific needs and has little to do with who we really are....

: : Thus it is harder in our society for a female to be a 5 or a 8, for their overall caracteristics are usually described as masculine, on the other hand it is harder for a male to be a 2 or a 4 since males are expected to reflect an image opposite to these types.... It is so easy for a female to play the weak one needing protection while autonomy and independance of thought are so often black mailed. I have coached both male and female 4s and have noticed this big difference generated by collective beliefs.
: ~~~~~~~~~

: I agree that it's harder--for both.

: As a female 5, I tend to confound too many expectations of what women "should be like" for comfort, be it the comfort of boyfriends or employers or even other women. I just do what I'm going to do, and as long as I harm no one else (or their property) I don't want to hear about what's "feminine." I have two X chromosomes. No matter what I do in this world, be it build bookcases or study history or bake cookies, I will always be female--hence, feminine. I don't have to overcompensate and try to be "like a man;" I just refuse to participate in arbitrary, irrational cultural divisions of what makes a man and what makes a woman, or take seriously what I think are small, petty, mean and fearful opinions based on those cultural divisions. In my head, I'm androgynous.

: I do think men who are 2s or 4s have a very hard time of it, though. It is easier to be a tough, assertive, outspoken woman than it is to be a nurturing, sensitive man; toughness and assertiveness are prized in the fields that bring the most money or power, after all--business, law, politics. There's nothing unusual about a woman becoming a surgeon, for instance, but if a man chooses to become an RN instead of a doctor he's looked on strangely. "Feminine" traits are still considered inferior to "masculine" ones; women can employ either or both, but men can *only* be "masculine"--to behave in a way that might be considered "feminine" is a lesser choice, and perceived as weakness. That's why I see the gains of feminism as extremely lopsided--they have expanded the opportunities for women, but have not gained wider cultural respect for "feminine" qualities.

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: I agree, although here in Europe, assertive women may gain professional respect, but they so often end up alone for most men are scared of an intimate relationship with a strong woman. And I am not ready to fit in the stereotyped image just not to be alone. Yes I do feel androgeneous in my head and I seek a real mature relationship with a man, not a "fill-up fix". : : : : here a few thoughts on typing and gender drawn from my own experience and observations. Ther is indeed a strong cultural influence uppon self-image, and self-image is something built by our subconscious to fulfill specific needs and has little to do with who we really are.... : : : Thus it is harder in our society for a female to be a 5 or a 8, for their overall caracteristics are usually described as masculine, on the other hand it is harder for a male to be a 2 or a 4 since males are expected to reflect an image opposite to these types.... It is so easy for a female to play the weak one needing protection while autonomy and independance of thought are so often black mailed. I have coached both male and female 4s and have noticed this big difference generated by collective beliefs. : : ~~~~~~~~~ : : I agree that it's harder--for both. : : As a female 5, I tend to confound too many expectations of what women "should be like" for comfort, be it the comfort of boyfriends or employers or even other women. I just do what I'm going to do, and as long as I harm no one else (or their property) I don't want to hear about what's "feminine." I have two X chromosomes. No matter what I do in this world, be it build bookcases or study history or bake cookies, I will always be female--hence, feminine. I don't have to overcompensate and try to be "like a man;" I just refuse to participate in arbitrary, irrational cultural divisions of what makes a man and what makes a woman, or take seriously what I think are small, petty, mean and fearful opinions based on those cultural divisions. In my head, I'm androgynous. : : I do think men who are 2s or 4s have a very hard time of it, though. It is easier to be a tough, assertive, outspoken woman than it is to be a nurturing, sensitive man; toughness and assertiveness are prized in the fields that bring the most money or power, after all--business, law, politics. There's nothing unusual about a woman becoming a surgeon, for instance, but if a man chooses to become an RN instead of a doctor he's looked on strangely. "Feminine" traits are still considered inferior to "masculine" ones; women can employ either or both, but men can *only* be "masculine"--to behave in a way that might be considered "feminine" is a lesser choice, and perceived as weakness. That's why I see the gains of feminism as extremely lopsided--they have expanded the opportunities for women, but have not gained wider cultural respect for "feminine" qualities.

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