Home  Tests  Types  Diagrams  Books  Forums  Goals  Search
Main | Type 4 | Type 5 | Movie | Care | Chat

Enneagram Type 5 Board Archive

Re: Typing and gender

Re: Typing and gender


[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Type 5 Message Board ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by Zen Cowgirl on August 14, 2000 at 18:31:44:

In Reply to: Re: Typing and gender posted by Heidi on August 09, 2000 at 18:48:55:

: On a totally different line, being a female five has had effects on my "maternal instincts." My mother (6w7) and even my brother (2w3) report that seeing babies makes them (and I quote) "feel all melty inside." It seems to be okay that I wear skirts often (because they're comfortable) or bake cookies (because I enjoy creating in general), but I have always felt a little resentful that when I tell people that I don't intend to have children because I've thought of what goes into it and don't like the thought of such a loss of independence, that I get the impression that whoever it is thinks I am somehow less of a woman. Just because I can forsee what it would mean to my life as I know it, and because I don't much care for children to begin with, that makes me less feminine? It's not really very easy to explain myself on this issue. Laurence is right--it's tougher to be a female 5 (or 8)--even from a biological perspective.

~~~~~Aha! Somehow I didn't see this before...

~~~~~I do like babies and children very much, and like spending time with friends' offspring, but have absolutely no desire to have any of my own. Not only does the idea of getting pregnant and going through all of the physical aspects of it turn me off, but I honestly don't think I would make a very good parent. I make a great eccentric aunt, however; not quite Auntie Mame (I haven't the flair), but I'm the one that isn't afraid of messes and thinks playing with food is part of the reason it exists.

~~~~~I have five cats (three of them are kittens, right now), and they are my children. I feel a lot of love and tenderness toward them, and am very nurturing in my relationship with them, but when I get involved in projects, or want to leave town for the weekend, they are quite capable of taking care of themselves. Cats work out well for me because they provide a great deal of love, yet retain a great deal of independence; I work out well for cats because they can count on me to take care of their needs and provide affection, yet leave them alone when they want to be left alone. Children need attention when they need it, not in a week when I'm done with finals, not in an hour when I'm done painting, but right then! They also need structure, which I'm not all that great at providing for myself, much less a child, and of course I've yet to meet anyone to whom I could possibly stay married for 20+ years (I know a few single mothers, and I don't know how they manage; even if I wanted a child that would not be an option).

~~~~~I've been accused of being selfish for not wanting to give up my freedom in order to have children, and that may be so. But it makes my skin crawl when someone asks me, "but who will take care of you when you're old?" Having a child with the idea that I will have an eventual, built-in caretaker strikes me as far more selfish than not having one so I can continue to stay up and paint and listen to loud music until 4am when the urge hits me. Frankly, I don't know who will take care of me when I am old, should I prove unable to do so myself. I guess I will have to make other arrangements, and take responsibility for my own dotage--such as taking good care of myself so I don't fall apart so readily, setting money aside so I can afford decent care if I need it, and establishing myself in a profession that will allow me to continue to work and be active well into old age. (I'll be a fossil with tenure, yet).

~~~~~I also don't understand why it is seen as such an overwhelming need to have children at all. Yes, some people genuinely want them, and if they are able to care for them they should have children. But I've also seen people have kids who have been less than thrilled at the prospect, and have suspected they mainly had them because they were "supposed to," or worse, because they wanted caretakers down the road. I expect that yes, some people might perceive me as "less feminine" for neither desiring or having children, but then again, practically everything else I do in my life goes against how women "should be." The childlessness issue isn't such a big one for me; I don't really have much invested in meeting anyone else's twisted expectations of what is "feminine" the first place.

~~~~~ (I just remembered this; thought any Jungians here might have fun with it) I once had a very intense dream that I was walking down the street on a cold, blustery day, and my uterus fell out. I didn't feel much of anything, there was certainly no pain; it just slipped down the leg of the tweed trousers I was wearing and onto the sidewalk. I knew what was happening, and wasn't at all alarmed. If anything, I was relieved to be rid of it, and kept on walking. I had gone about half a dozen strides when a woman came running up to me, breathless. She was wearing a navy blue dress with a lace collar, a dress too thin to be any protection against the weather, but she didn't seem to notice the cold. "You dropped this," she said, and handed me my uterus, which was hard, transluscent, and salmon-pink like the inside of a conch shell. The woman was clearly upset and concerned. "You could have lost it forever," she said, as if trying to jar me into reality. I was irritated that she was pushing this unwanted thing on me, but took it anyway, slipping it into the pocket of my overcoat and muttering a rather gruff thanks that left her bewildered. When I got home, I put my uterus on a windowsill in my studio with driftwood, bones, shells, and other bits of natural debris; the translucent color of it was pretty in the winter light.




Follow Ups:



Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject:

Comments:

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:


[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Type 5 Message Board ] [ FAQ ]
type5board/messages/329.html