Posted by RoTtEn ApPlE on July 26, 2001 at 18:08:08:
In Reply to: Yet how did it get this far, in so many books, if many fives did not agree? posted by Diarmuid on July 26, 2001 at 10:47:11:
...popularity proves nothing.
This is a point that I'm kind of tired of defending. Truthfully, I'm much more about exploring and understanding... not so interested in explaining and convincing others.
: Have you even defined fear?
: It seems to me to be a remarkably subjective word. Any deed undertaken to prevent undesirable consequences can be said to be motivated by fear of those consequences. Basically, any logical, sensible thing you do, like taking a shower before a job interview, booking a hotel before you depart, reading the manual before assembling the machine.
: Where do you draw the line at calling it fear?
Ofcourse it's a lousy word... that's why I despise it's use... it's misleading. I do find it interesting that you see doing anything logical or sensible as being potentially fear motivated. That assumes that it's against our positive drives to act in such a way. It can also be viewed as DESIRE for certain positive consequences... or optimum consequences.
: Fact is, fives often act logically, using foresight to predict negative outcomes and taking steps to prevent these outcomes. Every five I have ever met does this a lot. Not to say they never get caught unawares, but it tends to happen less because they naturally use forethought. Which is not fundamentally different from fear.
Are you saying that the 5's drive to predict is avoidant? I think you are confusing 5s and 6s. 5s do not fear punishment... 5s are not paranoid or self-defeating... they are schizoid. The fundamental nature of the 5 is the view that world is cold, indifferent, unloving... like stone... (not punishing or threatening as it is to a 6 or a 1). 5s are survivalists... like we have dropped on an unwelcoming planet and must learn how to find food and build shelter and take care of our own needs... hence we are also minimalists. We predict in order to understand the world we must survive (and hopefully flourish) in.
We see the 5ish attitude exemplified in the schizoid personality, a direct reflection of the cold, stone-like environment mirrored in the forgotten individual. Prediction is a step towards action... it is not fear motivated but shows a desire to succeed and survive.
: Other types tend not to think ahead unless they are forced to.
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: : 5s are no more fear motivated than any other type. Triads and their terms are often misleading.