Posted by Ryan on July 29, 2001 at 13:11:35:
In Reply to: The last word on Cory posted by RoTtEn ApPlE on July 28, 2001 at 23:25:12:
I'm not saying you need to be Cory's girlfriend. My point is that when you have feelings about someone you are using your feeling center. You stereotype type 4 when you talk about 4ish feelings. This is the "angst stereotype" that everyone has and gets from average to unhealthy 4s and from reading their posts on the 4 board. An above average to healthy 4 will make connections and bonds with people on a very profound level... a total sharing of self. I contend this is the kind of bond that you and Cory may have. So you are indeed using your feeling center even if you deny it. Personally, I think you are afraid of feelings because of your bout with depression and you try to deny that side of yourself now. But you are a 5w4, Liz, what does that mean to you? Why do you label yourself like that when you seek to deny everything the 4 is? Why do you adore him? Adoration isn't a 5ish trait (unless it pertains to their books or computer). Tell me what your 4 wing means to you.
: >>>HAVING feelings is natural and human...
Just like doing things and relating to the world around you is natural and human too. But not everyone does these things well. Not everyone "feels" well either... and certain types have trouble with this, types like type 5, which is why 5w6s can be so emotionally cold and 5w4s use their wing for feelings quite often.
>handling them in a 4ish way is bad news for a 5. Was speaking generally and not about Cory at all... but let me wrap this up once and for all. Cory is in California. I am now in Hawaii. Cory has a girlfriend. We both knew (1) that I was moving (2) that he was seeing someone BEFORE we had sex. We are no longer having sex but we are still exchanging email as friends... as we did for months before we met in person. Hell, I feel like I'm issuing some kind of public statement for the papparazzi or something. So fuck it. I wanted to have sex with Cory because he was a good time, I was attracted to the idea he was virgin, and I simply ADORE him... he is intelligent, fun, and doesn't bore me. PLUS, I think we are very similar people... just at different points in life. Cory's REALITY is his girlfriend, his family, his job, his day to day life... and REALITY exactly where he needs to BE in order to explore REAL choices. I hope someday our pathes cross again.
: : Please don't tell me that you just enjoy using people to sleep with them. If you use both the doing center of the libido (6) and the inward feeling center to develop a bond with them (4) then you are indeed being a healthy 5. If you neglect one center then you are not a fully dimensional 5 in my mind. Not that I am saying I am, as you may guess I have the opposite problem you do. But I advise that you look inwardly at what you feel for other people much more and start caring less about yourself and your own desires.
: >>>Hahhahha... libido at 6? 6s aren't libidinal at all. Libido is at 8, Ryan. 8 is RAW sexual power. 5s also can manage bonds via 8 (or at least that's my theory... I haven't ever bonded in an adult relationship but it makes sense) the only time I do start to emotionally connect with people is through my desire to protect MY people, suddenly acting very much like an 8.
Your conception of libido is at type 8, because you perceive that sex is power. That is an incorrect although common conception. Sexuality and power are not the same things. The latter is rape on some level, the former is two people having a good time and enjoying themselves. Sex is just something to do, just another desire. 6s fear sex because of the fact that they put themselves and their security on the line when they open themselves up to someone in a sexual manner, but all 6s want to have sex. 8s want sex for power and the control it gives over another being. If you think sex is just all about power relationships then I pity you for your skewed thinking, but I don't think you do. You had sex with Cory because you thought it would be something fun to "do." Of course the 8ish power thing manifested by the fact that Cory was a virgin and you got off on that... but mostly I think you did it for your own pleasure, not for any power reasons. That is the difference between the doing center of 6 and 7, and the over-relating center of 8. 6s may not seem libidinous because they are commonly out of touch with their doing center... but sex plays a very important part in their thinking. Just look at Perceiver's post and how sexually related they always are. For 8s, sex is power and once they feel they have power over someone their desire for sex ceases with that person. 6s (and 7s of course), are the ones who want to continue sexual activity.
And back to you... are you sure you're not a 7w8? What are your motivations? Do you really have a desire to observe and understand the world around you? Or is your desire more to get out and experience everything the world has to offer? And you pointed out the fact that you want to protect your people... an 8ish motivation which could indicate a wing. But where is your 4 wing? You may be a 5w4 and you may be inwardly feeling when you tell of your admiration of Cory, but now I'm not so sure. Please tell me why you think you have a 4 wing because I'm trememdously curious (a 5ish trait... how curious are you about others?). Maybe the enneagram just doesn't fit you well. I know it fits me well. I am a 5w4 and quite happy with my existence without the pretenses of having to satiate my libido, etc. You just remind me of one of my friends from high school who was extremely intelligent, a great writer and conoisseur of the arts, but clearly a 7w8. And why would a 5w4 need to dominate with libido? To me 5w4s dominate with knowledge, of the world around them and also of themselves. I don't see the need to want to get out and sexually dominate with a libido when my knowledge gives me enough control... And if you are a 5w4, I don't see why you should want to either.
Ryan