Posted by Ryan on July 30, 2001 at 22:00:03:
In Reply to: Let's talk about ME posted by RoTtEn ApPlE on July 29, 2001 at 23:04:54:
Thanks for the good response. I consider your perseverance and desire to experience the world admirable.
I suppose what we're seeing is just the difference between sexual and self-preservation 5w4. You might get a different take altogether from Isaac who seems to me to be a social 5w4. I don't have a lot of your desire and ambition and see no reason to have it. I remember reading a comparison between British people and Americans talking about how Americans were more into ambition and becoming more than they were, while British people are not as ambitious and are more content with what they see as their lot in life. I guess my attitude is a very British one, and I've found that I have a lot in common with Brits whom I've talked to on here, who are a very self-preservationist people. I've never been into the whole 8ish "go out and conquer the world to be happy" thing, and I never will. I enjoy the small, simple things in life and have never been a grandiose dreamer. I get a lot of mileage out of very little. Someone who is a sexual 5w4 would easily get depressed by a life like mine, but I consider myself a somewhat healthy individual who treats people with respect and dignity and wants to make the world a better place in the long run. And my main 5 type doesn't feel the need to suppress my 4 wing. It gives me another focus in my life. Thinking about myself and who I am is a very constructive thing to do and I'm good at keeping my feelings in check although when I fall in love I fall hard. But if it doesn't work out there's always another love that will be better than the last. So I don't get depressed.
But I can see how going out and living life can keep you from brooding over yourself in an unhealthy way. It's just not my style to go all out in an 8ish way. I find that understanding others is not only a good way to learn more about yourself and your place in the world, but also gives me empathy, as the more I understand the more I can feel for something. I'm surprised more 5s don't try the approach.
I wish you happiness in whatever choices you choose.
Ryan
: >>>Hehheh, Ryan, you are speaking directly to my 4 side and my 5 doesn’t like it. (5 says ‘Talk to me. I’m in charge here.’) Alright, I’m laying all theories aside (because on that level I disagree with you on many points) and speaking honestly from my own voice, personally. Someone asked me about my 4 wing before and I said I keep it bound and gagged in the basement of my mind… it is a monster and it’s never done anything but fuck up my life (well, and aid me in creating some excellent art). I have no trouble admitting that I carry around a great deal of old, deep pain. I was emotionally abused by my extremely unhealthy, very needy Type 2 mother… and simply neglected by my phobic, workaholic Type 6 father. (I can still hear their voices in my script decisions.) I learned to be self-contained and extremely self-reliant… I’m aware of what it is and where it came from.
: I don’t know what’s going on between me and Cory… and as I’ve learned is best, I tell myself I don’t NEED to KNOW. Since I’m a 5 that’s my basic problem, I want to KNOW first before I can EXPERIENCE. Well, seeking prior understanding of all things, kept me from LIVING the life I wanted. It is a conscious decision on my part, a change from my natural inclination, to ACT based on whim or instinct… to be willing to make mistakes and face the unknown. Actually, as a compromise, I rely heavily on my adept intuition.
: I don’t deny my feelings or that they aren’t BLATANTLY 4ish. I frequently laugh at my own tendency to be melodramatic and self-pitying. The real difference, I suppose, is that I do not let my 4ish inclinations mess with my 5 side’s decision be active and forward moving. I don’t over-introspect anymore. Yes, these decisions are the result of my long bout with depression. They ended my depression and have moved me toward genuine well-being and a functional, joyful existence. Not saying it’s the endpoint by any means, just that I am where I need to be NOW.
: And I don’t think sex is power and you are treating type 8 in the same manner you accused me of treating type 4… looking only at the unhealthy angle… but I can’t argue theory and speak personally at the same time… moving on…
: :::And back to you... are you sure you're not a 7w8? What are your motivations? Do you really have a desire to observe and understand the world around you? Or is your desire more to get out and experience everything the world has to offer? And you pointed out the fact that you want to protect your people... an 8ish motivation which could indicate a wing. But where is your 4 wing? You may be a 5w4 and you may be inwardly feeling when you tell of your admiration of Cory, but now I'm not so sure. Please tell me why you think you have a 4 wing because I'm trememdously curious (a 5ish trait... how curious are you about others?). Maybe the enneagram just doesn't fit you well. I know it fits me well. I am a 5w4 and quite happy with my existence without the pretenses of having to satiate my libido, etc. You just remind me of one of my friends from high school who was extremely intelligent, a great writer and conoisseur of the arts, but clearly a 7w8. And why would a 5w4 need to dominate with libido? To me 5w4s dominate with knowledge, of the world around them and also of themselves. I don't see the need to want to get out and sexually dominate with a libido when my knowledge gives me enough control... And if you are a 5w4, I don't see why you should want to either.
: >>>Yes, I’m quite sure I’m a 5w4, sexual subtype… speaking from a neurotic stance: Schizoid/Borderline aka Schizotypical. If you met me IRL, there is no way you would think I was a 7w8. I am very much the outside observer… I watch carefully before I make a move. I have a deep hunger for all kinds of knowledge that is never satisfied… particularly self-knowledge and understanding of personality as well as the general human condition. A 5w4 doesn’t dominate with libido… libido is a drive that can counteract the inertia that keeps a 5 stuck in the head… bring him/her into the body and thus, into the world.