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Enneagram Type 5 Board Archive More for you on the 25thPosted by RoTtEn ApPlE on August 18, 2001 at 03:31:04: In Reply to: When will you be finished? posted by Ryan on August 18, 2001 at 02:15:55: : It's a shame that you don't think 5w4s who are idealists exist. Of course I think to excess like a 5 and am shy and moody like a 4. What gives you the impression I'm not like that? >>>I have pretty keen intuition... something about you doesn't add up or make sense. I can't find you in the dark... if you're not in arm's reach... how can you be a 5w4? But enough mysterious intuitive talk. I think 5s can be very idealistic but when they do it's because they are being 4ish or 6ish depending on their wing. Therefore I'd say I'd expect a lot of passion and extremes about ideals from a 5w4 in his wing. 5ness is not interested in ideals... except as something kind of funny and interesting. 5s are too obsessed with truth... ideals don't help you prepare for the realities of the world. I definitely take care of myself first. Unfortunately, I have always been an optimist and not a pessimist. I've always believed understanding leads to truth, beauty and perfection. I'm your classic Platonist. Of course that's an old-fashioned philosophy but I guess I have a bit of old-fashionedness in me. To me, life isn't worth living without hope, and that's why I'll always have it. If you don't have hope you might as well commit ritual seppuku, as far as I'm concerned. I refuse to fall for the life is meaningless bit and people like you will always see me as a blind bat but optimism is what makes me happy, not bitching and moaning. We only make ourselves victims, and I refuse to be a victim for any person or for society as a whole. I'd rather deal with the problem at its source then just complain about it on the fringes. These diatribes only underscore your defeatist attitude about life. Make your life mean something. >>>I'm not a pessimist... and a diatribe is not a bitch or a moan... it's just another way of pointing to the middle... using exaggerations or irony to underline the truth. I loooooooove life. I don't understand why you need hope or meaning. Life IS... that's not a bad thing or a good thing... it just IS. Why should I force meaning on it? : Yes, I've had my experiences with rejection too. My friends victimized me too (although I think I was way too entertaining to them for them to ever downright reject me. Ha ha). But I learned the pain of rejection when I went through my divorce and when my ex-wife came out and told me the only reason she married me is because her parents liked me because I'm intelligent and she wanted to make them happy... and realizing she lied to me everytime she told me that she loved me when I meant it with all my heart when I told her. Looking back now I know she's not the person I want to spend the rest of my life with but back then I was devastated and I still haven't met anyone better than her even though I know she's out there somewhere. The point is, I didn't let what happened to me defeat my hope and my self-worth. She was the problem, not me. Don't let other people screw with your life like that. Just because you put your own needs first doesn't mean that your own needs should be the only thing that's important to you. You have to be willing to put emotional faith in people again and just get up again when you get knocked down because someday you'll find people who won't be so predisposed to knock you down. People like that do exist. Don't confuse being independent with being a jagged rock... sharp at the edges but only too brittle... >>>God, you so didn't get the point of my example. I didn't feel defeated or attacked... or hurt. I ignored my own needs (very 5ish) and categorized myself as a freak... as something unlovable (very 4ish). Now, see Ryan... turning it towards defeat again really teases my mind that you are a 5w6. 6ness is all about overcoming defeat... getting up when you're knocked down. All stuff that ain't issues for me as a 5w4 at all.
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