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Re: Happiness?

Re: Happiness?

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Posted by Sambersil on September 19, 2000 at 19:32:26:

In Reply to: Happiness? posted by Aristotle on September 19, 2000 at 07:58:24:

When the male spider lets the female spider eat him, it is because 1.) he has no choice (for example, he loses the power to move) or 2.) he feels that it will make him happy. No one can say if it actually does make him happy; maybe he gets a different kind of orgasm as the female spider bites off his head. That's not the point. The point is that he either did what he did with the INTENTION to feel happiness, whether he was successful or misguided, or the choice to act was not his. The stuff with the masochist - pleasure is not always equal to happiness, and pain is not always equal to unhappiness. To use a current events example, when an olympic gymnast injures her knee in the landing of a horse activity but competes again, as the gymnast runs up the mat to the horse, she experiences terrible pain. She is happy, however, because that pain is a measure of her own worth - she finds strength in her ability to resist pain and continue to compete. She also has the happiness of knowing that she was doing the best thing she could to accomplish her ambition of a gold medal for her team. In the book "The Once and Future King", Launcelot is terribly unhappy as he loses his virginity and with it the strength of ten men, but he must also have been having an orgasm, and thus receiving pleasure. Pain and pleasure are unimportant to choices; only happiness is.

About suicide for better good - How do you think the Kamikaze pilots were feeling when they divebombed Allied ships? They had been conditioned their whole life to believe that dying to aid one's country = heaven and salvation and the greatest honor. Sure, some of them may have been afraid, but if they were it was either too late for them to change their minds or they could not bear turning around and facing their old friends. They expected greater unhappiness in shamed life than in what they had been trained to believe was honorable death.

You haven't convinced me.

: Happiness?

: The Masochist died and went to hell and found himself before the Devil. Everywhere terrifying implements of torture hung from the walls surrounding the chained Masochist.

: Staring him right in the eye the Masochist taunted the Devil - "Beat me!"

: Staring him right back in the eye the Devil answered, "No!"

: ========

: Hmmm, Sambersil, I (2,500 years ago) came to that conclusion about human life. However now after much time and consideration it occured to me that when Male spiders let the Female spider eat them it was not Happiness that they were achieving. What is the overall purpose of all life on the big picture - not just people and not just survival.

: Perhaps those religions have something to offer after all...

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: When the male spider lets the female spider eat him, it is because 1.) he has no choice (for example, he loses the power to move) or 2.) he feels that it will make him happy. No one can say if it actually does make him happy; maybe he gets a different kind of orgasm as the female spider bites off his head. That's not the point. The point is that he either did what he did with the INTENTION to feel happiness, whether he was successful or misguided, or the choice to act was not his. The stuff with the masochist - pleasure is not always equal to happiness, and pain is not always equal to unhappiness. To use a current events example, when an olympic gymnast injures her knee in the landing of a horse activity but competes again, as the gymnast runs up the mat to the horse, she experiences terrible pain. She is happy, however, because that pain is a measure of her own worth - she finds strength in her ability to resist pain and continue to compete. She also has the happiness of knowing that she was doing the best thing she could to accomplish her ambition of a gold medal for her team. In the book "The Once and Future King", Launcelot is terribly unhappy as he loses his virginity and with it the strength of ten men, but he must also have been having an orgasm, and thus receiving pleasure. Pain and pleasure are unimportant to choices; only happiness is. : About suicide for better good - How do you think the Kamikaze pilots were feeling when they divebombed Allied ships? They had been conditioned their whole life to believe that dying to aid one's country = heaven and salvation and the greatest honor. Sure, some of them may have been afraid, but if they were it was either too late for them to change their minds or they could not bear turning around and facing their old friends. They expected greater unhappiness in shamed life than in what they had been trained to believe was honorable death. : You haven't convinced me. : : Happiness? : : The Masochist died and went to hell and found himself before the Devil. Everywhere terrifying implements of torture hung from the walls surrounding the chained Masochist. : : Staring him right in the eye the Masochist taunted the Devil - "Beat me!" : : Staring him right back in the eye the Devil answered, "No!" : : ======== : : Hmmm, Sambersil, I (2,500 years ago) came to that conclusion about human life. However now after much time and consideration it occured to me that when Male spiders let the Female spider eat them it was not Happiness that they were achieving. What is the overall purpose of all life on the big picture - not just people and not just survival. : : Perhaps those religions have something to offer after all...

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