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Enneagram Type 5 Board Archive Re: Are assholes wusses?Posted by Ryan on September 29, 2001 at 05:47:33: In Reply to: Re: Are assholes wusses? posted by Bartholomew on September 29, 2001 at 00:54:19: : Argument is very necessary. People cannot be allowed to be incorrect. If you disagree with someone, it is imperative that you state this disagreement and argue until the other person sees that he is wrong, you see you are wrong, or you both see that something else is right. If one person understands an issue and another does not, the first one will win an argument about the issue, unless the second one is outright stupid. How logical of you to argue about how logic is just a relativistic belief like religion in one post, and then to say that there is a "right" and "wrong" belief in your next post. I have rarely seen arguments in which one person admits defeat and the other person is clearly victorious. Unhealthy people usually end an argument basically by just telling each other they are "wrong" and then storming off. But the true benefits of argument I believe are twofold. First, argument allows one to see the diversity of opinions out there. It allows one to see how logic can be used to believe in different things and how each of these beliefs could be correct in different contexts. When one sees the diversity of beliefs out there, they are more likely to develop an appreciation for the diversity of opinions and less likely to be narrowminded and believe that their own "personal logic" is the absolute correct way to live life. In short, healthy argument makes one more tolerant and understanding of others and humanity in general. Second, and more important, argument is the way new ideas develop. I'm a firm believer in the Hegellian dialectic in which two opposing forces conflict and from the conflict a new idea emerges. Argument is the healthiest way to bring this about. The best arguments are not those in which we just learn to appreciate the view of the other as different from ours, but those in which both parties develop a new understanding together through the process of debate. The birth of a new idea is a beautiful process indeed and is often a slow, arduous process... but in the end both parties know that the new idea is not only a synthesis of the two previous ideas, but that it is more correct than both the two previous ideas. I've seen this process even on these boards. The "conflict" between 5ish ideas and 4ish ones on here have developed some unique understandings of both types. And of course 5s always have good arguments together. Unfortunately, the worst arguments are when "isolated" types on here, like 6 (Perceiver) or 8 (Mikko) get involved. I think they tend to just get frustrated with the propensity of certain viewpoints on here and thus tend to lash out. But on a whole, argument forms the seeds from which new ideas form and I can't imagine how intellectually stale this place would be if certain people had their way and arguments were kept to a minimum.
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