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Posted by Epoxy (66.26.244.108) on September 15, 2002 at 10:54:49:

In Reply to: Just found this site and board! posted by wavey (216.227.120.161) on September 14, 2002 at 20:32:09:

> Hello all, I've been an amateur follower of the Enneagram and MBTI for a few years now, but never seem to have gotten as in-depth as anyone here (almost sounds like the beginning of a letter to Penthouse! "I'm a long time reader, first time writer. Let me tell you about the hot night I had with my new neighbor and her triplet cheerleader sisters!"). It's all talk of wings and subtypes and tigers and bears, oh my! Meanwhile, I'm scratching my head, trying to figure out if I'm going to post and admit my ignorance or stay in my own little world and try to pretend I know exactly what everyone is talking about.

Great analogy! Too bad most of us 5's don't have many stories like those...

> IGNORANCE ADMITTED: How do I know which wing I am? I know I'm a five, that's always been clear. I read a short description about the 5w4, but what about the 5w6? I want to have more information before I come to a complete conclusion.

I've only read 2 books on the matter also (Riso & Palmer). I wasn't clear on wing either, but from reading Riso's descriptions at the end of the chapter on 5's the 4 wing was more accurate. Also if you try the tests on this site they might provide an indication (I consistently score higher on 4 than on 6).

> Then the subtype? I'm thinking I go more towards self-preservation, but am unsure.

I'm not sure on this either; a couple of posts down I asked Amy to clarify them for me, and her response was useful:

"There is an excellent description of the subtypes starting on page 70 of Riso and Hudson's "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" (a good book overall; lots of cool little overviews such as the primary ways each of the types manipulate others; for fives it's by staying preoccupied and by detaching emotionally from others). Instead of "subtypes," Riso/Hudson use the term "instinctual variants." Part of the description in this book states, "On entering a room, Sexual types quickly focus on finding where the most interesting people are. They tend to follow their attractions. By contrast, Social types notice who is talking with the host, who has power, prestige, or who might be able to help them. Self-Preservation types will note the temperature of the room, where the refreshments are, and what might be a comfortable place to sit." The subtypes are even more basic than the types. People who are different types but the same subtype supposedly have more in common with people who are the same type but different subtypes."

From that description I would say I am a 'sexual' subtype. But I don't have any reference sources to tell me what being a 'sexual' subtype means.

> I'm sure everyone will tell me to go buy a book, but fact: I'm poor (art student here)

Are you sure you're a 5? Hard to imagine a 5 artist, but I suppose there are some. Escher? I can think of a few singers too.

> Please at least point me in a direction where I could get some more info! Apologies if this has been covered in other areas, I realize how annoying newbies (trying to get info for free) can be with silly questions and ignorant comments.

I doubt anyone here minds. There are seemingly only a few regular posters and not too much activity; most people will probably welcome your questions for the novelty if nothing else.

> Reading some of these posts is eye-opening! I can completely identify with so many things you've posted here... it's kind of scary, but comforting at the same time.

Yes, discovering there is a whole set of people out there who are just as screwed up as yourself, and in lots of the same ways, is both appalling and reassuring, isn't it? For me it was exciting at first, but ultimately it hasn't seemed to have helped me a whole lot. I guess if I make a few friends it will be worth it. Thus far the enneagram has been most useful in helping me to deal with others, but not so useful in helping me to deal with *myself*. I suppose I am a bit more accepting of my 5-ish quirks whereas before I just thought I needed to *change* those things.

> BTW, I'm a rare female 5 and INTJ. Wow, double the isolation! ;)

Got any numbers on that? Like I've heard there aren't too many female 5's, but I wonder if that's true, or what the percentage is. I think most 5's are INTJ (that's what I am), though again I can't quote any stats.

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Re: Wings signor ferrari (24.47.169.110) 12:25:02 09/15/02 (0)

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> > Hello all, I've been an amateur follower of the Enneagram and MBTI for a few years now, but never seem to have gotten as in-depth as anyone here (almost sounds like the beginning of a letter to Penthouse! "I'm a long time reader, first time writer. Let me tell you about the hot night I had with my new neighbor and her triplet cheerleader sisters!"). It's all talk of wings and subtypes and tigers and bears, oh my! Meanwhile, I'm scratching my head, trying to figure out if I'm going to post and admit my ignorance or stay in my own little world and try to pretend I know exactly what everyone is talking about. > Great analogy! Too bad most of us 5's don't have many stories like those... > > IGNORANCE ADMITTED: How do I know which wing I am? I know I'm a five, that's always been clear. I read a short description about the 5w4, but what about the 5w6? I want to have more information before I come to a complete conclusion. > I've only read 2 books on the matter also (Riso & Palmer). I wasn't clear on wing either, but from reading Riso's descriptions at the end of the chapter on 5's the 4 wing was more accurate. Also if you try the tests on this site they might provide an indication (I consistently score higher on 4 than on 6). > > Then the subtype? I'm thinking I go more towards self-preservation, but am unsure. > I'm not sure on this either; a couple of posts down I asked Amy to clarify them for me, and her response was useful: > "There is an excellent description of the subtypes starting on page 70 of Riso and Hudson's "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" (a good book overall; lots of cool little overviews such as the primary ways each of the types manipulate others; for fives it's by staying preoccupied and by detaching emotionally from others). Instead of "subtypes," Riso/Hudson use the term "instinctual variants." Part of the description in this book states, "On entering a room, Sexual types quickly focus on finding where the most interesting people are. They tend to follow their attractions. By contrast, Social types notice who is talking with the host, who has power, prestige, or who might be able to help them. Self-Preservation types will note the temperature of the room, where the refreshments are, and what might be a comfortable place to sit." The subtypes are even more basic than the types. People who are different types but the same subtype supposedly have more in common with people who are the same type but different subtypes." > From that description I would say I am a 'sexual' subtype. But I don't have any reference sources to tell me what being a 'sexual' subtype means. > > I'm sure everyone will tell me to go buy a book, but fact: I'm poor (art student here) > Are you sure you're a 5? Hard to imagine a 5 artist, but I suppose there are some. Escher? I can think of a few singers too. > > Please at least point me in a direction where I could get some more info! Apologies if this has been covered in other areas, I realize how annoying newbies (trying to get info for free) can be with silly questions and ignorant comments. > I doubt anyone here minds. There are seemingly only a few regular posters and not too much activity; most people will probably welcome your questions for the novelty if nothing else. > > Reading some of these posts is eye-opening! I can completely identify with so many things you've posted here... it's kind of scary, but comforting at the same time. > Yes, discovering there is a whole set of people out there who are just as screwed up as yourself, and in lots of the same ways, is both appalling and reassuring, isn't it? For me it was exciting at first, but ultimately it hasn't seemed to have helped me a whole lot. I guess if I make a few friends it will be worth it. Thus far the enneagram has been most useful in helping me to deal with others, but not so useful in helping me to deal with *myself*. I suppose I am a bit more accepting of my 5-ish quirks whereas before I just thought I needed to *change* those things. > > BTW, I'm a rare female 5 and INTJ. Wow, double the isolation! ;) > Got any numbers on that? Like I've heard there aren't too many female 5's, but I wonder if that's true, or what the percentage is. I think most 5's are INTJ (that's what I am), though again I can't quote any stats.

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