Re: Zionism

Posted by six sense (68.5.121.53) on December 03, 2002 at 20:38:03:

In Reply to: Re: Zionism posted by Epoxy (216.166.228.231) on December 03, 2002 at 10:16:41:

>Yeah, what makes one "Jewish" is not really clear.Some people think of it as a religion I think the Nazis considered someone Jewish if one of their grandparents was an ethnic Jew.Also of course there is the chasm between ultra-orthodox Jews and those who are more progressive, but this rift between fundamentalists and progressives is common to all religions I think.Regarding giving up the land...I agree with what you are saying, but the big difference is that all of the war-time land-shifts you referred to occurred during or before WWIIThe idea of having a UN is to stabilize borders and allow for peace, partially through punitive actions where such borders are violated (as in the Gulf War, actions in the former Yugoslavia, economic sanctions against Iraq, etc.). I agree about Israel's problems of attacks from neighboring territories, but that is a separate issue that will require some other solution. Maybe they will never give the land back (I see no indication that they will)<
I couldn’t say much about the whole Israel. But when I visited the country about five years ago, I talked to people (mostly Russian Jews). Practically all of them didn’t mind to give the land back, BUT they were very concerned that it won’t stop violence and won’t bring any peace anyway and nobody from their families had been killed back then. It changes to the worst by every passing day. And I do believe that giving the land back won’t bring peace but it’s my personal view. I see some parallels with the Chechen rebels in Russia. (I think by the way that Russians should give them independence but should be prepared that the war will go on one way or the other). Imagine the nation that doesn’t do anything else for years but fighting. Kids are growing up not knowing what peace is. There is nothing there but the war. People don’t build, don’t teach, don’t do anything what we normally do. It changes human psychology, perspective, everything I guess. (There is a good movie by a russian director on the topic). I didn’t grow up during the war (both of my grandfathers went to the war), but as kids we used to play “Germans against Russians” all the time. It takes generations to settle down problems after a war is over. These are just some of my thoughts. I don’t claim to be an expert on the topic.

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