Misunderstandings...

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: Isaac, settle down. We aren't discussing whether or not to lauch a nuclear bomb. We are simple looking at the same thing and perceiving it differently. One person looks at a clock and sees "time"... another looking at the same clock sees a "machine". Both may be seeing something true but incomplete. Different perspectives... this is why discussion is such a valuable way for opening the mysteries of life. : : >>>>no, it really isn't. each type is 4 dimensional, as deep and wonderful as the personality it represents. there is no need to change type becuase you can change so dramatically within your type.<<<< : I'm not debating the beauty of the model or suggesting one type has more value than another. I AM saying the model does not adequately cover the element of time (therefore is imperfect and incomplete). A lot of room is left for interpretation in the matter. : : the riso personality developement chart is nice and symmetric, but i personally think it's bs, somewhat. i don't know what causes personality, or when it happens. but, it's early in life, if not before birth. it is certainly before any real sort of self-consiousness (as self-consiousness is commonly understood.) : Now we are talking about something different. I am stating: Change of type does occur during development. Then I am asking: When, for how long, and how much. You are saying consciousness cannot be used to change personality. Your answer does not match my question. : : : : At what point does that environmental influence end and personality become fixed... if ever? : : just because you are exactly one type, your personality is not necessarily fixed. one type is remarkably dynamic, allowing for all sorts of different people and healths and dispositions and worldviews, etc, etc, etc. two sevens are TWO PEOPLE; they are not the same. i am still influenced by my environment, greatly in fact, but my environment will not make me stop being a 5. (unless, fo course, my environment drops a piano on my head and i stop being.) : Again, your answer does not match my question. If type is not set at birth and subject (at least to some degree) to the influence of environment during development, then at what point does it become fixed as a specific type, if ever? Does it gel suddenly or does a fine tuning process occur? (I am speaking only of fixing type and not health which we agree is dynamic throughout a lifetime.) : : : To illustrate: someone who was a 5.9995 could change enough to become a 6.0003? : : the enneagram is not the real number system. : : there are no fractions or decimals in it. : Obviously. I merely trying to illustrate an abstract concept while constrained by the limits of concrete terms. Let's simplify and work through the above before we start in on wings and other messes. : Elizabeth

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