Enneagram Main Board Archive

A somebody responds again.

A somebody responds again.

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Enneagram Message Board ] [ FAQ ]

Posted by Morgan on December 28, 1999 at 13:51:50:

In Reply to: A nobody answers.... posted by Andy on December 28, 1999 at 03:51:48:

> And 3-s are the type most aware of how others perceive them, and to have
> a such awareness I take it for granted they must be a perceiving type,
> as an EXTJ you cannot have that level of awareness of how others perceive you.

This deserved a separate response.

Putting this statement into deductive logic:
P1: All 3s are persons who are most aware of how people perceive them.
P2: All persons who are most aware of how people perceive them are perceiving (P) types.
P3: Gigi is not a Perceiving type.
Conclusion: Gigil is not a 3.

This first requires a definition of the perceiving function, which you declined to provide. I am quoting this definition from "Sixteen Men: Understanding Masculine Personality Types", by Loren E. Pederson, Ph.D. It has definitions of type functions in the glossary that fits either gender:
"Perception (P)
The JP index refers to one's dealings with the outside world, favoring judgement (J) or perception (P). Perception types remain longer in perceiving mode than judging types before reaching conclusions."

Let's also define judgement as well:
"Judgement (J)
Judging types spend less time in the perceiving mode before reaching conclusions."

So what is the perceiving mode, and how does it make a difference in personality types? Pedersen explains this on pg 24 and 25.
"The JP attitude describes how an individual attempts to deal with the outer world-the manner he adopts in trying to deal with it. This outer world adaptation can be primarily through either a judging attitude (J=thinking or feeling) or a perceptive attitude ( P= intuition or sensation) to observe the world.
"So, the person who is judging likes to live in a more structured, planned, controlled, organized, and decision-directed manner. He does not like loose ends, but likes things to be brought quickly to a conclusion through decisions, or "judgements". So, he uses a judgement function to seek closure or to decide on the appropriate action for his perception. One might say he reaches conclusions primarily through thinking or feeling.
"On the other hand, someone who has a perceiving disposition prefers an easy flow of events and enjoys flexibility and openness to the new, novel, spontaneous, and unexpected. This person will likely not need to make decisions as quickly as their judging counterpart, but will be more tolerant of ambiguity. He perceives the world by using a perceptive function, sensing or intuiting to observe or take in the situation."

Apparently, the JP attitude has little to do with how a person imagines others perceive them. What does, indeed, is another argument.

Finally, there is a link I would like you to see about the relatinship between the enneagram 3 type, and MBTI types that typically correspond with it. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but it would be interesting to note whether Js or Ps correspond to the 3 type most frequently. According to this link, ESTPs, ENTPs, and ESTJs score highest in Type 3, and ENTJ also occurred in this type.

In conclusion, one can be a P or a J and still be a type 3.

A brief review and update.

Follow Ups:

Post a Followup

Name:
E-Mail:

Subject:

Comments:
> > > And 3-s are the type most aware of how others perceive them, and to have > > a such awareness I take it for granted they must be a perceiving type, > > as an EXTJ you cannot have that level of awareness of how others perceive you. > This deserved a separate response. > Putting this statement into deductive logic: > P1: All 3s are persons who are most aware of how people perceive them. > P2: All persons who are most aware of how people perceive them are perceiving (P) types. > P3: Gigi is not a Perceiving type. > Conclusion: Gigil is not a 3. > This first requires a definition of the perceiving function, which you declined to provide. I am quoting this definition from "Sixteen Men: Understanding Masculine Personality Types", by Loren E. Pederson, Ph.D. It has definitions of type functions in the glossary that fits either gender: > "Perception (P) > The JP index refers to one's dealings with the outside world, favoring judgement (J) or perception (P). Perception types remain longer in perceiving mode than judging types before reaching conclusions." > Let's also define judgement as well: > "Judgement (J) > Judging types spend less time in the perceiving mode before reaching conclusions." > So what is the perceiving mode, and how does it make a difference in personality types? Pedersen explains this on pg 24 and 25. > "The JP attitude describes how an individual attempts to deal with the outer world-the manner he adopts in trying to deal with it. This outer world adaptation can be primarily through either a judging attitude (J=thinking or feeling) or a perceptive attitude ( P= intuition or sensation) to observe the world. > "So, the person who is judging likes to live in a more structured, planned, controlled, organized, and decision-directed manner. He does not like loose ends, but likes things to be brought quickly to a conclusion through decisions, or "judgements". So, he uses a judgement function to seek closure or to decide on the appropriate action for his perception. One might say he reaches conclusions primarily through thinking or feeling. > "On the other hand, someone who has a perceiving disposition prefers an easy flow of events and enjoys flexibility and openness to the new, novel, spontaneous, and unexpected. This person will likely not need to make decisions as quickly as their judging counterpart, but will be more tolerant of ambiguity. He perceives the world by using a perceptive function, sensing or intuiting to observe or take in the situation." > Apparently, the JP attitude has little to do with how a person imagines others perceive them. What does, indeed, is another argument. > Finally, there is a link I would like you to see about the relatinship between the enneagram 3 type, and MBTI types that typically correspond with it. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but it would be interesting to note whether Js or Ps correspond to the 3 type most frequently. According to this link, ESTPs, ENTPs, and ESTJs score highest in Type 3, and ENTJ also occurred in this type. > In conclusion, one can be a P or a J and still be a type 3.

Optional Link URL:
Link Title:
Optional Image URL:

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Enneagram Message Board ] [ FAQ ] wwwboard/messages/13267.html

Your Ad Here