Posted by Geenius at Wrok on August 19, 1998 at 09:59:59:
Had an interesting incident recently in which someone who I'd typed as an
Eight with a Nine wing took the online RHETI and his top three scores were
in Five, Three and Eight. The Misidentifications chapter of "Understanding
the Enneagram" had guidelines for distinguishing Threes from Fives and
Threes from Eights, but apparently it never occured to Riso that anyone
might confuse Five with Eight. With that in mind, I wrote the material
below.
Fives and Eights are difficult to confuse, but when it happens, it's probably because an Eight who values intelligence would rather see himself as a Five, perhaps seeing the description of Eight as too "brutish." It's very common for intelligent people, men in particular, to overrate their Five-ness either as a response to societal expectations or to reinforce their self-image as "thinkers."
Where Fives and Eights are similar is in their interest in power and in their perception of the world at large as a hostile and dangerous place. Both types are "survivalists," leery of letting others gain power over them and maintaining a sort of bunker mentality. However, Eights are interested in accumulating all sorts of power, whereas Fives generally are only interested in one sort of power: knowledge. Eights use power preemptively to strengthen themselves, whereas Fives use power reactively to defend themselves. Eights feel comfortable using power; Fives are reluctant to use the power they gain. Additionally, while both Fives and Eights see the world as hostile, Fives (especially average and unhealthy Fives) see the world closing in around them, whereas Eights (especially average and unhealthy Eights) see themselves pushing outward against the world. (Contrast this mentality with that of the Three, which adapts readily to the world's demands, while Fives and Eights are more inclined to resist.)
Both Fives and Eights can be private and secretive, but Fives are true loners, not wishing to depend on anyone else or have anyone else depend on them. Eights do not want to depend on others, but they enjoy having others depend on them and will go to great lengths to build networks of supporters. Even Eights with Nine wings, the more withdrawn subtype of the Eight, use their power to help "their people." Eights' personalities inevitably have an aggressive component; there is nothing aggressive about Fives. (Although Fives may seem aggressive when challenged in their area of expertise, this is a reaction motivated by anxiety, like the behavior of a cornered animal, and not true aggressiveness.) Eights involve themselves in the world, while Fives consider it a distraction and shut out those parts of it that don't interest them. Only the very healthiest Fives come out of their shells and make a mark upon the world in any way other than by making some sort of theoretical breakthrough; for better or for worse,
Eights nearly always make their mark.
Fives typically have very poorly developed social skills because of their tendency to withdraw in the face of stress rather than adapt. They reject doing things for the sake of appearances and unhesitatingly challenge others' closely held opinions. While some Eights may come off as lacking in social graces, it usually comes out of an incorrect belief that others relish challenges and conflict as much as they do and are as well-equipped to face up to it. Eights are always forceful in dealing with others, although the presence of a Nine wing may add a diplomatic aspect. Both Fives and Eights repress their feelings to avoid showing vulnerability, but Eights are more inclined to equate emotion with "weakness"; for Fives, such repression is simply another manifestation of their desire for personal privacy.
Fives are relentlessly curious and seek out information voraciously, not wanting to rest until they've exhausted a subject completely. For Fives, it's not important that knowledge serve an obviously useful purpose, only that it reinforce their sense of expertise, and so Fives (especially Fives with Four wings) are often drawn to esoterica. Eights want to arm themselves with knowledge, but only knowledge they can put to use, either for their own gain or for the benefit of "their people." They are not interested in hearing things that don't seem applicable. (Very intelligent Eights may seem more open to trivial knowledge, but only because they have a much broader view of what sorts of knowledge may turn out to be useful in the long run.) Despite their hunger for information, Fives have a very difficult time knowing when to stop gathering data and draw a conclusion, and they are inclined to put off this moment of decision; Eights know immediately-and let others know-when they've heard enough.
Finally, when Fives are under stress, they become panicky, flighty and unpredictable-their walls begins to crack, revealing their inner anxiety. When Eights are under stress, they reinforce their walls, becoming more secretive and suspicious. It takes an extremely healthy Five to come out from the lab, so to speak, and start taking action using the information he's gathered. When it comes to taking action, Eights are always in their element, and when they become extremely healthy, there's a noticeable shift from accumulating power for the sake of power to using that power altruistically, as the Eight comes to realize that compassion isn't the same as weakness.