Posted by Hal on August 21, 1998 at 13:17:00:
In Reply to: Re: Telling Fives from Eights posted by Dave on August 19, 1998 at 19:04:34:
:
: Geenius,
: Excellent analysis of the mistypings of 5 and 8! Well done!
: To add to your fine work:
: 5's appear as 8's when their physical and vocal stature is powerfull. 5's may be aggressive in their dealings with others, but it's not to intimdate or control another like an 8 might. Rather their focus is on getting a desired outcome without emotional or relational involvement, and/or limited interpersonal skills.
: There are "quiet 8's" who are introverted and don't seek out interpersonal conflict, but they do like to challenge themselves. Their relationships with most are minimal, like 5's.
: 8's believe that power leads to knowledge. They do first, learn second.
: 5's believe that knowledge leads to power. They learn first, then do.
: 5's tend to act as if less is more with the material world, though they can be ambitious and accumulate great wealth (ie. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates), but that wealth frees them from needing anything.
: 8's tend to act as if less is more in the intellectual world, accumulating enough knowledge to achieve their goals and results without getting bogged down in paralysis by analysis.
: 5's with a strong connection to their 8 point will assert themselves even at average levels of development. 5's with a strong 6 wing who are counterphobic often attack rather withdraw under stress, but think they should be withdrawing while doing so. Both will have good social skills.
: 8's with a strong connection to their 2 point at average levels of development will intefere in others lives in order to help them. This isn't common of 5's at all.
I was just thinking about type-5 scientists who often go to conferences and will relentlessly defend their ideas and positions, becoming very emotional when they feel attacked. In cases like these, they are very predictable (I believe that Geenius make the comment that 5's under stress become UNpredictable) and they will often appear to be leading and taking charge as an 8 would. In situations like these, the 5's DO want to dominate and intimidate others into agreement. The difference is that a 5 does this out of a fear that they will be shown to be much less knowledgable and competent in their field than they feel they are.
I'm certain that some of these scientists are not 5's, but rather unhealthy 1's with a skewed sense of right and wrong. They then believe in their science as a religion and try to force thier views on others because they are so sure they're right. But a good number of them are 5's, and it seems that somewhere along the line, they went astray. I'm just not quite sure how the enneagram explains this behavior.
- Hal -