Re: A Plausible Hypothesis

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: ********************** : Kronos Comments: : : Walter: : : Let's start from the foundation of establishing a working hypothesis, rather than my own biased, anecdotal impressions. : : Hypothesis #1: Most FOURS will internalize information and draw conclusions about things without necessarily having direct exposure to events. : : Hypothesis #2: Most SEVENS will internalize external information but are reluctant to extrapolate to new experiences because they lack direct evidence to support a conclusion. : : Expected Result #1: FOURS have an innate ability to iNtuit conclusions leading to non-action because of fear of the outcome; whereas SEVENS will tend to iNtuit conclusions and then tend to move toward action because they distrust iNtuitive conclusions and must have Sensory information in order to feel comfortable. : : Expected Result #2: SEVENS tend to Sensors/iNtuitors (Sn); FOURS tend to iNtuit/Sense (Ns). : : Anecdotal Observation: SEVENS are more likely to be more balanced in scoring S v. N on MBTI; whereas FOURS tend to prefer sN (with Intuition being the clearly a dominant preference). : *********************************************************************** : Walter Response: : I notice that you have reported yourself as a 7w8 at this message board, and that you are compassionate in how you use type with your students. I expected that you would be able to offer a lot of insight on Seven's gift of perception via their five senses, as well as perception via intuition - and you did. Thanks! : Quite a while back at this board you posted for an Enneagram Type Seven discussion group. Did other Sevens contact you and did anything develop from that? : Here are some of my comments below. : ********* : Your approach to choose Hypothesis #1 and #2, and then follow it works very well. I like that strategy. : ********* : I generally agree with Expected Results #1 but I would like additional language to clarify the role of action and non-action, and the role of fear of outcome and wanting to feel comfortable. : But even without extra words, it seems to me that you have captured very essential attributes of Type Seven and Four. : Action and moving to acquire new sensations from new objects in the environment is a key aspect of the Seven behavior. This behavior is also central to the SP Dionysian Temperament identified by David Keirsey in "Please Understand Me." We need to hear more about why Four's move or do not move. : : ********** : I agree completely with Expected Results #2. : Yes, it is also my understanding that Sevens tend to be Sensors/iNtuitors (Sn). Sensing (S) is their most used Jungian perception function, and by default intuition (n) is their least used Jungian perception function. Their priority order of perception functions is well captured by the S-n or Sn notation that you use. : Conversely, I understand that Fours tend to be iNtuitors/Sensors. Intuition (N) as their most used Jungian perception function, and by default sensing (s) as their least used perception function. Their priority order of perception functions is well captured by the N-s or Ns notation. : *********** : Your Anecdotal Observation: : You note that a group of Sevens are more likely to test as both S and N, than a group of Fours who would tend to be much more concentrated as N. There are many explanations for this. Your hypothesis and expected results explain some of this. : Here is another explanation that explains some of the effect. There is a scoring mechanism within the MBTI test instrument that tends to count some "n" answers by "Sn" as pointing to a dominant intuitive. Linda Buerens, a leading Temperament teacher, has written extensively about this mistyping of SP Artisans. She calls her typing system True Type, and claims that it leads to less mistyping of the SP Temperament. : Another explanation comes from the enneagram philosophy itself. The enneagram is based on threeness (positive or first force, negative or second force, and neutralizing or third force). The enneagram is a realistic dynamic system that is able to avoid or resolve dualistic either-or distinctions. The law of three and law of seven guarantee a dynamic information system with feedback. Enneagram Point Seven can and does use information from Point Four to form a holistic gestalt of information. Point Four also forms a holistic information gestalt when they include Seven. It is more difficult for MBTI Type models to explain this dynamic effect because there is no "grey" area when opposite "black" and "white" categories of Jungian functions are named. : An instrument like RHETI is very helpful because it indicates preferences for nine points with a continuous prefence score between 0 and 32 with a median of 16). : ********* : It is interesting to listen to Keirsey as he discusses low, moderate, and high interest invested in the psychological functions of sensation and intuition. : "Sensation vs Intuition" [page 102-103, Please Understand Me, 1978] : "Observation: : Does the child daydream frequently and seem hungry for fantastic tales, even wanting them repeated over and over, or is the child more bent on action, getting involved in games and liking more factual stories?" : "The intuitive or N child is apt to ask for a repetition of stories, whether read from a book or told over and over, and he is apt to want to hear stories of fantasy and metaphor. The sensation or S child is likely to enjoy the sequential adventure story about the familiar and factual, wanting the story to have action and make sense. The S child likes stories with a large amount of detail and usually prefers a new to an oft-repeated tale. The S child is likely to be found engaged in playing games, or some type of other activity, abandoning storytime for action." : "Only the extreme intuitive (Ns) can be spotted in their early years. The moderately intuitive tend to be concrete in their behavior and outlook and appear very similar to the moderately sensory children (Ss). This results in there seeming to be deceptively few N children in the elementary school classroom. In the adult population, as pointed out in Chapter 1, Ss outnumber Ns three to one; even if every N were identified, the ratio is unbalanced. Compounding this imbalance, the slow surfacing of the N characteristic in children makes there to seem to be very, very few with this preference, and so the extreme intuitive, especially the introverted feeling intuitive, is subject to feeling like an ugly duckling." : ******** : Kronos, .. Do you find Keirsey's thumbnail sketch to be generally accurate. To what extent does it support your two hypothesis and end results? Does it help to explain why there tends to be more negative descriptions of Fours, as compared to positive descriptions of healthy Fours in enneagram literature. : I'm also interested in your thoughts on the role of the motor function. Jung intentionally omitted the sensorimotor functions in his insightful psychological model of four Jungian functions of consciousness, and eight Jungian psychological types. I account for this missing piece by assigning the Gurdjieff physical moving function and Jungian psychological Persona at Enneagram Point Three for all types to use, including type Three. : : Kronos, thanks again for your insightful propositions to explore Enneagram Point Seven and Four. You get a lot of mileage out of them! : Best Regards, : Walter :

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