Posted by Hal on September 30, 1998 at 09:54:16:
In Reply to: Re: Riso's Star Personality posted by JWS on September 30, 1998 at 01:03:21:
: Dear Perceiver,
: Thank you for contribution. Let's see if we can generate additional input on this subject.
: Wasn't "OJ" a 3w2? Wasn't he also STRESSED!! Can you think of other examples? Samuel BUNDY?? I thought Threes usually revert to manipulative means rather than to hysteria and rage. Don't they disassociate under stress in effect creating added defense mechanisms to thwart intense repressed/unconscious emotional trauma with potential MPD manifestations. As the three follows "disintegration (d)" the conscious state, while endeavoring to control loses, controls and alters by "switching" either through disassociative or nondisassociative means, e.g., Clinton(?).
: Now, what about a disintegrating three with a high thrust at six? A highly emotional situation? You bet.
: What can the spouse do other than follow my former mentor, Scot Peck's, "People of the Lie" crap or revisit Whitfield's book, "Boundaries," and grieve his inverted bell curve illustration depicting dysfunctional behavior...and wait until the 3w2's "living process" bottoms-out reducing one to psychopatheticness... before new explorations toward spirtuality?
: Who else can see the depth of the (d)threes problem except the spouse, the only one they will let close enough to occasionally reveal themselves too. That occasional glimpse of "honesty," only too quickly to wither and become the shadow of fear, again.
: Others see the "motivator," the "achiever," the "Super Hero!" The spouse, the "Victim," the systems, "scapecoat?" In the eyes of society, their are no dysfunctional, disintegrating threes! Why? Because, they mirror us, our culture, our society. It is their image, their facade that we idolize. Threes...hope & virtue? Spouses...hang-on for dear life!!
: Ringer writes, "...sustenance of a positive mental attitude with the assumption of a negative result..." In the case of a (d) three, I think not.
: Your thoughts?
I think you've been reading too many psychology books. :-) You quote many "back of the book" answers, but having all this information doesn't seem to be helping you deal with your spouse.
I don't have a spouse who's a 3w2, but my youngest brother is a 3w2. Not the same thing by a long shot, I know, but I'll share some of my experiences anyway. At the very least, it's often nice just to know that you're not alone in dealing with a problem. Keep in mind, however, that I have developed a dislike of 3's, which is well documented on this website. I am certainly not an unbiased voice this discussion.
My brother tends to drive me up a wall when I spend any length of time with him. He is constantly arguing just to prove that he is right about something. The something is often trivial and meaningless, but he argues it as if the fate of the world rests on his shoulders and his being right about it. He goes to great lengths to impress others (designer clothes, very image conscious, buying a car that he can't really afford), but refuses to admit to himself or others that he does this. And he becomes incredibly angry if I suggest that he has any undesirable personality traits, or suggest ways he might change to become a happier, more sucessful person. He thinks he knows it all, and has no need to follow others' advice, and no need for introspection.
What to do about it? I have found that it is impossible to force someone to change, especially someone who is convinced that he doesn't need to change. Unhealthy 3w2's can be very deluded--they are just as dishonest with themselves as they are with others. I've gotten to the point where I just refuse to argue with my brother--when he starts, I tell him that I don't want to argue, I don't care about the topic because it's unimportant, etc. I try my best not to get sucked into a conversation I don't want to have. He always sees it as trying to "win"; my view is that in these arguements, nobody wins.
I've also all but given up on pointing out my brother's flaws to him. He responds very badly, no matter how gently or lovingly I suggest a change. What pisses me off more than anything, though, is that he'll sometimes ask my advice, and he never takes it. I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't really want to hear my advice--he want me to validate his opinion so he can feel better about doing something that he knows deep down is not the best choice. Since we rarely see eye-to-eye on things, this is a common occurance. It also doesn't help that he's really a spoiled kid, and has gotten everything handed to him on a silver platter. I'm still waiting for the day when her realizes that the world doesn't work that way--he can't get everything he wants, and people won't like him if his attitude doesn't change. So far, it hasn't happened. The times when his plans didn't work out, he always found a way to convince himself that he never wanted that outcome in the first place--more self delusion.
I wish I could be more positive about this, but I constantly see my brother on a fast track to a miserable life, and nothing I've done to help has convinced him otherwise. I'm lucky in that I don't have to deal with him on a daily basis anymore. The best I can do is set an example and hope he finds something of value to follow in it. I can't say what would work for you, but I know that getting into involved arguements with your spouse isn't it--it's a situation you just can't win, no matter how right you may be.
Could you give some more specifics about what the problems are that you have with your spouse? Maybe there are some more concrete ways to handle spcific situations.
- Hal -