You have a choice: you can respond to my points, or you can stop talking. That's the way an argument works. What you did here, restating your views, isn't enough.

Posted by Bartholomew (63.214.82.172) on May 01, 2002 at 17:12:57:

In Reply to: Re: Two can be very altruistic and loving when they are healthy!!! posted by KJ Always (209.214.13.23) on May 01, 2002 at 14:47:15:

> I did not appreciate you saying healthy or balanced 2 are not altruistic, which cause me to think their humanitarian efforts are not worth anything. I am very upset and hurt by a 2 that was close to me because her going to her stress point of 8 woke me up to the reality that I can't trust this woman with my heart and the face the horrible reality of who she really is. I hurt me so much, but I still appreciate the good that they contribute in our world.

OK, you have established that you have a negative emotional reaction to my views. I think it's worthwhile for me to point out that your establishing that doesn't help your case any.

> I wish I knew how to appear as loving as they are and as loving as some really are and altruistically gave themselves to help others. I have cried in the past because I feel my love is not enough comparing to what I have seen these people do, even if it is giving to get or altruistic. I wish I knew how to go to foreign countries and take those malnourished children into my arms and make them feel loved and special like a 2 does. I have to go because it makes me sad because I don't think I am like that.

OK, I concede that 2's help others. My point is that they don't do it altruistically. Can you do anything to further your point that they DO do it altruistically, besides just stating it?

> I feel bad that I am not longer friends with this 2 who have made me feel loved and special for years. I can't idealize her and confirm her goodness anymore, and I know she will be angry with me because I can't. I don't want to face that 8 monster in her again, ever! I want her to know that I love her though I am so disappointed in her and her behavior. I told her to volunteer to get her needs to feel loved and appreciated, but I saw her shamelessly flirt with men that isn't not her husband and then turned mean towards me. I was special to her when everybody rejected her invitation to her party and I was there, but when these three drinking men came arrived to the party, she was the center of attention in a way I never seen her behave. I don't want to see her anymore because I know I can't trust her love for me anymore. I am sad over another loss. My dad died last November and another friend crossed over on Easter.

I'm not seeing anything relevant to our discussion here.

> Warning: Be careful when you question a 2 goodness and image of being loving when they are at their stress point at 8. It is a nightmare for me to see such a loving creature turn into a irrational overly emotional demon!!! I realized that she probably felt unloved when all those people did not show up. They made 20 bags of toys and only one child show up for the party. She purchased a lot of food and expecting all of these people to show up and they don't. I guess, they did not validate her goodness and validate that she is loved by them. I realized that she does not love herself enough to nurture to appreciate those who were loyal to her that came to the party. Now, she lost me because of it. Her manipulating loving charm does not work on me anymore because my eyes are open and sad.

Again, irrelevant.

> I am still cheerful, but sad when it comes to her. I nurturing myself and my personal growth. Do you have any advice in dealing with 2 from personal experience? How do you validate that they are good and loving when you end a friendship based on what they see as "bad" in my mind. She sees things in terms of "good or bad and right or wrong". I wish I knew how to help her more, but I feel my efforts are not good enough because she became very imbalanced that day of her picnic birthday party. She needs to do those things that will validate her genuine and find fulfillment, like Princess Diana did with those children. My former friend has a gift of making people feel loved and special no matter who they are.

OK, so 2's make people feel special. That's not the issue. The issue is WHY they do it.

Follow Ups:

• Re: You have a choice: you can respond to my points, or you can stop talking. That's the way an argument works. What you did here, restating your views, isn't enough. KJ Always (216.76.209.56) 03:44:53 05/04/02 (1)
  • LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE, DAMMIT! Bartholomew (63.214.67.45) 10:16:21 05/05/02 (0)

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