Posted by KJ Always (209.214.15.59) on May 04, 2002 at 17:17:57:
In Reply to: Please answer the question posted by Bartholomew (63.214.122.196) on May 04, 2002 at 11:41:33:
I never told you to just go with the flow and ignore your own reasoning, I think you should respect other people's right to their own reasoning and strive for harmony. I just believe it is fair to give people the same respect that you expect them to give you, even about your views on the enneagram.
The Muslims would not give the Hindu the same respect that they demand and took a piece of the land in India and call it Pakistan in 1947 and they started a war with the Hindu because they chose not to live in harmony with one another and respect one another differences of beliefs.
I don't think it is fair for you to correct or criticize other people's views on the Enneagram, especially if they are quoted a teacher of the Enneagram. It gives me the impression that you have a big ego and is the only one who knows all. I can be opinionated sometimes too and hopefully, I don't discount other people's experiences, like they have done to me. I know you say people should stick to their views, but they have to experience opposition from you discounting their views as if their experiences and views are inferior to yours.
Well, you say 2 are not altruistic, which sounds like you don't think 2 can become balanced like the rest of the Enneagram types can or do you think nobody can reach their highest level. Does that means that 6 cannot or won't reach to the balanced level of courage, like the Enneagram teachers says? I disagree with you, but you probably haven't met balanced people to believe what Enneagram teachers say. I don't know your experiences that have caused you to believe 2 do not reach the level of altruistism. I believe everybody has hope to obtain their highest good if they want to.
I don't see no reason why we should not strive for harmony and peace in spite of our differences. When I used to be a fundementalist Christian, I did not believe in homosexuality and they knew it, so there was no need for me to preach to them since they have heard it from others a hundred times already. I still became friends with them and accepted them as they are and we respected our differences in views and appreciate what we had in common. They tried to convinced me that I am a good Christian for accepting them as they are, which is not what my former church would agree to. I never did like division when it is a natural thing for us to be individuals with uniqueness about us. I can see that in the Enneagram how unique we are with all these variations beyond the core.
Of course, I am not a fundementalist anymore. I struggle trying to fit in an organization that separates us. Now, I go to Unity Church where we believe in Unity and Peace in our world and it starts with us as individuals. It is sad to see what is going on in Asia and the Middle East because people want to control others to conform to their views and their ideology what they believe is right and discounting other people's views and cultures as inferior and wrong. I wish not for the Enneagram Community to be divided within itself because we have different views and outlook. We could use our different views and harmonize a big holistic picture of humanity that could possibly birth another revolution that could improve the quality of the world's interpersonal relationship.
I know the books says that 6 are not comfortable with people who opposes their views, but that could disappear as the person integrate into the healthy or balanced level. Wouldn't you agree? I seen my best friend being that way. She is my hero! I have seen her go from a self-destructive imbalanced/unhealthy 6 to a courageous and successful professional young woman in such a remarkable manner that I will never forget it as long as I live. I know a 6 can go from being fearful, suspicious, suicidal, unemployable, and poor interpersonal relationship to becoming employable and rised to the professional arena in several months with no experience or credentials! She kept the same relationship and stop breaking up with the man and feel more comfortable with people that she does not know a lot more, but still reserve at times. I taught her the Enneagram and she used it and appreciated herself as she is.
My experiences with that young lady and many others, tells me that people can reach their highest level like the Enneagram teachers says. I am fortunate to meet people who strive for excellence from within and according to their individuality. Her and I don't agree on everything, but we still have harmony and acceptance of one another's individuality. The more we learn about our selves and accept who we are, the better our relationship became. We communicate and grow together. I will not trade her for anybody else in the world because she is in my heart and one with my spirit. ha, ha, ha. We are both heterasexuals, just in case you were wondering. ha, ha, ha. We strive for win-win solutions to our differences.
My sister(6) and I don't always share the same views about the world and people, but I support her in whatever she does because I do understand that she is a 6 and 6 have special gifts to offer this world, and I won't stand in the way of that. She is a nice person and peaceful, but she don't trust strangers and her home is as private as my best friend's home! I know the rules and try to respect their rules and not go against their needs to be in control of their safety and security! They are not violent or concern with fighting. They would rather take a flight. I told my friend that a genuia pig is a phobic 6 and self-perservationists concerned about survival needs. ha, ha, ha. They are cute like the female 6 I am close to. ha, ha, ha.
Do you now understand my views about peace and harmony within our differences in diversity, Bartholomew? It is a matter of respect not emerging into the majority's views. If you feel more comfortable in opposition and others wants to argue with you, who am I to stop you. Go for it, dude! Everybody is welcome to comment on this.
KJ
> > > You are implying that a person should abandon what his reason tells him, just because a lot of people say that he should. Why are you implying that?
> > It seems like you want everybody else to abandon what their reason has told them and see things from your point of view because they all are wrong and you are the only one who appears to be right and everybody else don't know what they are talking about. Do you think they should dismiss Riso and what their reason has told them because you disagree with them or they don't see it the way you see it?
> I am not claiming that everyone else should abandon THEIR reason either. I'm claiming that NOBODY should abandon their reason. If other people's reasoned view is that I am wrong, they should stick to that view and not change it just because I say I am right.
> In case you've forgotten, my question was in response to your saying that I should "go with the flow" and ignore what my reason tells me. I am asking what support you have for that. If you can't answer the question, the appropriate response is to concede that neither I nor any other person should just "go with the flow" when our reason tells us differently.
> Once you have answered the question or responded appropriately in some other manner, I will address your other points.