Posted by Amanda on December 30, 1998 at 10:32:17:
In Reply to: 4 and 9 dilemma and seeking device posted by Kate on December 28, 1998 at 22:27:47:
Greetings Kate
I've read with interest about your dilemma with your 9 husband....and I can really relate. I, too am a 4 and have been married to my 9 husband for nearly 19 years. It's been a challenge at times, but one that we've both adapted to over time.
Very early on in the piece we discovered that we saw the world in a very different way from each other. This had the potential to create huge problems if we had not devised a way of handling it. To put it simply, I would put asaide my view of a situation and look at things totally from his point of view. Then he would put away his own ideas and view things from my point of view. In this way, we saw situations with much more clarity than if we'd relied soley on our own perceptions. It had the added bonus of building up a respect for each other's particular ways of doing and seeing things.
For the most part, I have found his calmness to be very grounding for me. I have the tendency to float off into the ether on occassion and he keeps my feet on the ground. (If not, he keeps the ground stable until such times as I land again!)
Like your husband, mine knows he is a 9 from what I've told him of the egram. In fact, much of what he's learned throughout our married life has come vicariously through me. Whenever I've made new discoveries about life, the universe and everything he's been right there like a sponge soaking it up. The egram started to become a weapon at one point and we nipped that in the bud in fairly short order. No lame "I'm just a 9" excuses and no "4 bashing" permitted. The egram is only useful so long as it promotes personal growth and the art of relating to one another.
After 30 years of marriage, I'm sure it's abundantly clear to you that you cannot force another person to change. All we can ever do is work on our own growth. Sometimes, a consequence of our growth spurt actually challenges others to grow as well. That's not always the case, of course...but it does happen on occassion. Often what we think will be the outcome and what actually eventuates are two very different things. There have been times when I wanted nothing more than for him to change. Instead, I went through a huge learning curve myself...and I changed - and the things that I once wanted to change in him no longer bothered me.
One way in which the egram helped me enormously was the realisation that I was a 4 and that there were others out there like me who shared similar traits. There were others who went through life thinking things like "something's missing" or "no one really understands the depth of my feeling on this matter..." and I wasn't alone anymore. It also helped to learn what thought processes and actions lead to further compulsion and it's inevitable outcome and what leads to a healthy sense of self. Everything I've learned I have used to better my relationships with my family and friends...and with myself too.
Best wishes for 1999 !
Amanda
I have been reading and reflecting on the enneagram for about 2 years years now. I am fascinated by it and have always enjoyed self-analysis to a fault. I am almost sure I am a 4 with a strong 5 wing but show some 1 and
> 6 tendencies too (mainly 6 being I have had anxiety all my life) I was also excited because it was the first personality type test that my husband of nearly 29 years fit into-he is for sure a 9.
> At first I thought understanding the enneagram would be a great help to our rollarcoaster relationship of 30 years. My intense emotions and his calmness and at times apathy has been quite a mix. He shows some interest in the enneagram but only from what I tell him-he believes he is 9 because I told him so and now when anything goes wrong he says "well, I'm just a 9" -no thought that the enneagram can be a tool for change. No exploring it-he just believes everything I tell him about lots of things-changes religions when I do etc etc. (and he is a highly educated person-just to clear the picture) Now I am beginning to think that the enneagram is causing more conflict than before! I read all the frustrations about people with 9's and was thinking "yes! yes! That's so true" and then get all accusing at him. The making a molehill out of a mountain especially bugs me because we have a teen who is going through some problems (he is probably a 6-tries to please eveyone-a real group person-yet loves time alone too) He-may be experimenting with pot and who know and my husband just doesn't want to see it. Me-I am all beserk thinking something awful is going to happen to him. This is just one example.
> Then I get all self righteous and see my self as trying to change-trying to "do" rather that just feel and going to counselling , taking meds, reading self-help books, meditating -no one else in the family does any of this. "Poor Me" and i complain and gripe at his laxadazical Peter Pan dreamworld alot. Maybe I envy it--I do love him but we just fuss all the time-or rather I do-he just ignores my B****ing most the time and tells me its ok (its not). Help-I need some advice-maybe I should leave the enneagram alone for a while-or maybe it is the tool for mening our relationship. Don't worry about my feelings-I need some nitty gritty advice-I am sick of griping and know it doesn't help butt just keep exploding with 4 emotion,and now am spilling my guts to the whole world! Sigh!
> thanks
> KATE