Re: Everyone has 2 MBTI type functions

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> > > W, I followed this and other postings with keen interest. Could you > > > expand briefly on your concept of three? If I understand correctly, > > > 'Moving' adjusts for the imprecise fit of 8 functions and 9 types. > > > Say there exists an ENFJ 3; what is happening? Mis-typing? Moving? > > > Serious, non-critical inquiry. I am unclear how you accomodate a > > > seemingly anomalous type (3) in your framework. More precisely, should we > > > expect to find 3s clustering around a paricular MBTI? Thanks. > > ***************** > > Hi Brian, > > 1) > > I followed Riso's quite successful attempt to identify one of eight Jungian Types. Each Jungian type is a bipolar pair of complementary opposites dominant and inferior function-attitudes. The dominant function-attitude (call it yang) can be exercised by free-will over a mid-range of moderation, but on the high side or "excess" side of use - the type mechanism is activated - and the complementary-opposite (yin) arises automatically. One reason that Ichazo's Greek language of vice and virtue works so well with Jungian concepts is that "virtue' is associated with moderation - the golden mean range between excess and deficit. Excess tends to guarantee type dynamics with counter-balancing yang-yin forces/processes. > > 2) > > I had a simple goal when I first mapped the eight dominant Jungian function-attitudes (processes) onto the rim of a circle. I just wanted a simple picture of how the 16 Jungian process pairs (called MBTI types were formed). It was obvious that lots of process pairs did not have an MBTI Type definition - such as 1w2, 2w1, 5w6, 6w5. I found to my surprise that all the MBTI "J" types were formed from four enneagram Points (Si-8, Ni-9, Te-1, and Fe-2) on the top side of an enneagram of Jungian consciousness. I found that Riso had identified the correct dominant Jungian process at Points One and Two. > > I found to my surprise that all the MBTI "P" types were formed from four enneagram Points (Ne-4, Ti-5, Fi-6, and Se-7) on the on the bottom side of an enneagram of Jungian consciousness. Riso had identified the correct dominant Jungian process at Points Five, Six, and Seven. > > Riso pointed out that Three was not a Jungian type but was the most adaptable of all the enneagram personality types. He wondered if Jung had missed something, and so did I. Meanwhile, Ichazo, Naranjo, and the subsequent teachers Beesing, Nogesek, O'Leary, Hurley, Donson, Palmer, Riso were all using either implicit or explicit Persona language. So it was really a no-brainer for me to say that Point Three is not one of the eight Jungian psychological function-attitudes. Jung was very explicit about excluding moving and psycho-motor functions from his "big eight" list. He also admitted that it was silly to leave moving function out of the picture - once mental functions had played their preparation role - before the person tried to jump across the stream (Jung used those words). > > At this point in my understanding, I considered the enneagram to have nine pure and distinct psychological functions. Point Three was the Jungian psychological function of image role-playing or social adaptation called *Persona*. Whereas, Icahzo associates image with the entire three points (2-3-4) of the Emotional Center, I associate the Persona as the dominant image function in the 2-3-4 triad and I place it at Point Three. Remember that I am modeling a single individual, who with free-will can choose to use all of these functions. I do not say that the nine points represent nine different people, because this does not agree with the Indian and Gurdjieff source of enneagram teachings. Several centers (more than three) exist in a single person by their human nature. > > 3) > > Now I got serious about moving function. By the way, please read the articles of this in the Issue 1 of the EMBTI (one by John Fudjack on "The Fifth Function", and one by me on "Why the Enneagram of Consciousness"). > > I decided to understand Bennett's enneagram process model because it represented Gurdjieff's first teachings (no fixated enneagram personality types as conceived by Ichazo). I found that the shock point of mechanical connection to the world at Point Three (for the Law of Three Triangle) was not included explicitly in enneagram personality type teachings. I wondered why. Bennett did quite a good job in demystifying the enneagram in his teachings - after Gurdjieff's death. Bennett brought math, philosophy, psychology, and systems thinking to the problem. I followed his example - and had good results. I did find that the modern decimal system was completely unnecessary to explain the Law of Seven, and good reason for Gurdjieff's conjecture that the enneagram symbol was known around 2500 BC. > > An unlikely pair of people, Gurdjieff and Mortimer Adler, clinched the moving function mystery for me. Gurdjieff said that moving function was missing from modern psychology. Adler said that the intentional object type was missing in philosophy for several hundred years. It turns out that the two missing things point to the same thing - and back to Jung's Persona too at Point Three. There is a Philosophical Triad of Object Types known to Aristotle, redscovered by Muslim-Arab philosophers - and passed on to Thomas Aquinas and western philosophy for awhile. The triad is real objects in the world (in the extraverted direction of attention), subjective objects in human beings (in the introverted direction of attention), and intentional object type (for moving meaning and information between minds). The intentional object type represents information (sign or symbol) physically with the moving function. So Persona is an intentional object type. > > 4) > > I responsed to Tim at the EMBTI message board on the Persona. I said that there are nine pure and distinct psychological functions available to mind. I said that our psychology is contained within our body-mind. What we see walking down the street towards us, or speaking to us, or using tools, is a human being using muscles and limbs to achieve their aims. So I draw a second outer physical circle around the 9-pointed psychological circle. It is a physical embodiment. This outer moving appearance of skin and clothes, words, and actions is how the Persona is represented. The shock point for physically sending and receiving forces is at Point Three on the outer circle. > > So this approach integrates enneagram process with Jungian psychology (independent of enneagram personality type) and integrates enneagram personality types and their fixations with Jungian psychology with Bennett's enneagram process model. I also is compatible with the enneagram teachings of Don Riso in the Healthy Levels of Development. He associates Jungian function differentiation with Healthy Level Two, and Jungian Persona development with Healthy Level Three in his "pink" book. > > > > So Brian, This is my food for thought. I hope it doesn't give you too much indigestion! (Nine's can ignore that pretty well). > > Re your question about MBTI Type clusters around Three. Three is dominant Moving Function and Persona, Nine and Four are Dominant Intuition. I find that intuition and moving function are not differentiated by Keirsey and MBTI becaue they have four functions or four temperaments (not five functions). I would expect ENTJ (Te-Ne-Ni...) *especially* to be attracted to Three. I expect the 9-3 enneagram arrow to draw the Nine from inaction at point 9 to action at point 3. The 1-4 arrow can *rehearse* in the mind a possible action to change something. The 9-3 arrow or 1-3 *secondary* arrow hits Shock Point Three, and then this brings a new stream of sensory information to Point Seven. The person (Persona) has changed head or foot position and has moved to see or hear something that could not be seen before, and perhaps not heard well before the move. > > > Best wishes, > > Walter > > >

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