Re: 8w5 INTJ ?.....HERE....LEMME ASK YOU SOMETHING

Posted by Walter on January 20, 1999 at 10:22:42:

In Reply to: 8w5 INTJ ?.....HERE....LEMME ASK YOU SOMETHING posted by DEECEE on January 19, 1999 at 20:51:37:

> I took MBTI and Enneagram.....last summer.....I shrugged off the results..because I was not interested at the time....Now, however, I am....I tested equal 8 and 5...slight bias to 8.....very strong INTJ...I understand the "5" part.......Question is.....8's seem to conflict or at least contradict aspects of the basic INTJ profile..I don't understand the dichotomy.....Tell me what I don't know....

*****
Hi DEECEE,

1)
First, I will say that you should analyze the full implications of your RHETI and MBTI data. [If you have an E8 personality type you are already getting impatient with this response for more work by you]

Calculate the RHETI the scores for the three Center-Triads, and for three Hornevian traids. I give examples of how to use RHETI to calculate and interpret various Enneagram Triads at the "Enneagram and the MBTI" at web-site: http://www.wizvax.net/tap3x/EMBTI.

Look at how strong each of the I-E, N-S, T-F, and J-P dicotomous scales are. Which one is the weakest and could point to a potential mistyping? Remember that INTJ decodes as dominant IN with auxiliary ET on "J" side.

Most important, remember the fine print about Isabel Briggs Myers theory that I point out in my last EMBTI article. INTJ actually means Dominant IN with auxiliary IT (same attitude as dominant)AND you better be darn sure to use ET (thinking with the opposite attitude to dominant). If you didn't follow Isabel's advice, then you would use IN and IT very much, and could get stuck in the introverted/introspective side of attention.

2)
Having made those caveats, let me give a possible explanation for your MBTI INTJ and your nearly equal E5 and E8 scores. I still recommend that you use RHETI to anaylze how much energy you invest in various triads (see my article in the December EMBTI).

I decode INTJ as IN-ET-(plus IT), and I map all three as 9w1 and 9a5. 9-5 is called a secondary arrow because it is not in the starter set of arrows in the Enneagram Law of Seven (1-4-2-8-5-7) arrow generator, or the Law of Three (9-6-3) arrow generator.

So it looks like you are busy at work with your 9-5,5-9, 8-5, or 5-8 arrows. The big question is this: using RHETI data, is your 5-6-7 Thinking Triad higher than your 8-9-1 Instinctive Triad.

MBTI gives you a good fix on your Jungian function prefence order as: N-T-F-S. Your 4th function is predicted to be sensation which is dominant and extraverted at E7 with Se, and dominant and introverted at E8 with Si.

From your MBTI data it's possible that you have an Ennegram Type Nine style. If I saw your picture or in person I would know pretty quickly whether you have an E8 or an E9 personality type. E9 is compatibe with dominant introverted intuition predicted by MBTI. Sensation is your fourth function, so your almost equal scores for 5-8 arrow suggests integration work.

On the other hand, suppose that sensation is really your first function and intuition is your fourth. Then you would be quite a forceful person, who would wear the Challenger badge proudly, and laugh at the Peacemaker badge (as would you employees). The question then becomes "how could this be reported as INTJ and indicate IN or introverted intuition.

One way is this. Eight's dominant IS could pull up its fourth EN rather automatically and uses it for quite reliable gut "intuition" (if you took long enough to reflect with your E5's introverted thinking. You could also have a significant wing for introverted intuition at E9

Another way is this. According to my view the full-fledged enneagram has FIVE functions when the moving function at Point Three is included. MBTI have no construct for this fifth function, nor does Keirsey's temperaments. E8 stands firmly in the 8-3-7 Hornevian Assertive Triad, and uses Point 3 for getting their hands on things and doing the work.

It's possible for an E8 to report their skillful use of moving function (E3)as extraverted intuition on the MBTI!! Your writing style suggests the E8 instead of the E9. This demonstartes how important arrows are. Type Nine is told to follow the 9-3 arrow to get into action.

Type Eight is in motion already - they don't have to be reminded to get moving with their 8-3 arrow. They monitor their internal energy with the (introverted sensation) dip-stick in their crank-case - as they move.

These are some possible explanations. They show how important it is to have a quantitative tool such as RHETI to settle the argument by testing a hypothesis with numerical data. This allows the scientific method to be used to support or refute an explantation.

Walter

Follow Ups:

• Re: 8w5 INTJ ?.....HERE....LEMME ASK YOU SOMETHING DEECEE 15:53:32 1/20/99 (1)
  • Re: 8w5 INTJ ?.....HERE....LEMME ASK YOU SOMETHING Walter 17:41:45 1/20/99 (0)
• I suppose that it's rant time, again. Peter 12:32:40 1/20/99 (1)
  • I agree with Peter's 'rant' Dafyd 09:31:17 1/24/99 (0)

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