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Fours and Fives

Fours and Fives

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Posted by Dafyd on February 27, 1999 at 12:26:27:

In Reply to: Re: Just an observation.... posted by Peter on February 25, 1999 at 18:52:10:

> Take Tal, for example
Who is a Four. Tal: I hope you don't mind me doing the same.

> On the other hand, it could be that he's pretty attached to his own thinking, doesn't suffer _what he sees as_ fools gladly, and doesn't set much score by the art of tact. There's nothing particularly sixish about this these three - in fact, they would probably apply more to fives than to sixes. Tal himself types himself as a four, and although his posting style looks more indicative of a five than a four, there are all sorts of other factors out there which I don't know about and he does.

Actually, I think that the characteristics that you mention are as characteristic of Fours as of Fives. At least,
when Fours are arguing controversial subjects they tend to do the same. I've just had a row with someone whom I
think was a Four, and he has the same traits.
Fives tend to take on a slightly different tone, which is rather more hesitant, and involves making more
qualifications to what we say. I think we tend to lack the conviction of Fours, and the engagement with the
issues that really matter.

I'm speaking as a Five here - from within Five prejudices. I find it hard to appreciate Four habits of
thought. I don't think that they're wrong - I disagree with many of Tal's arguments, but they're
certainly interesting and thought-provoking. I'm trying to use the enneagram to appreciate other people's
differences from me, not to dismiss them. (People who condemn Eights for being direct, for
example, aren't using the enneagram properly.)
I'd be interested to know what Fours think of the way Fives argue.

> Given that he has the advantage here, I am prepared to accept his opinion on his type as being accurate.
[of his own type]

Quite.

Dafyd

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> > Take Tal, for example > Who is a Four. Tal: I hope you don't mind me doing the same. > > On the other hand, it could be that he's pretty attached to his own thinking, doesn't suffer _what he sees as_ fools gladly, and doesn't set much score by the art of tact. There's nothing particularly sixish about this these three - in fact, they would probably apply more to fives than to sixes. Tal himself types himself as a four, and although his posting style looks more indicative of a five than a four, there are all sorts of other factors out there which I don't know about and he does. > Actually, I think that the characteristics that you mention are as characteristic of Fours as of Fives. At least, > when Fours are arguing controversial subjects they tend to do the same. I've just had a row with someone whom I > think was a Four, and he has the same traits. > Fives tend to take on a slightly different tone, which is rather more hesitant, and involves making more > qualifications to what we say. I think we tend to lack the conviction of Fours, and the engagement with the > issues that really matter. > I'm speaking as a Five here - from within Five prejudices. I find it hard to appreciate Four habits of > thought. I don't think that they're wrong - I disagree with many of Tal's arguments, but they're > certainly interesting and thought-provoking. I'm trying to use the enneagram to appreciate other people's > differences from me, not to dismiss them. (People who condemn Eights for being direct, for > example, aren't using the enneagram properly.) > I'd be interested to know what Fours think of the way Fives argue. > > Given that he has the advantage here, I am prepared to accept his opinion on his type as being accurate. > [of his own type] > Quite. > Dafyd

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