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This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone

This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone

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Posted by Derf on February 16, 1998 at 20:46:11:

In Reply to: Enneagram Revision posted by Hunter Brooks on February 16, 1998 at 16:38:26:

Frankly, I have trouble with the three categories (especially the "pro-active" category) because they describes what a type DOES, not the type's motivation for doing so. We're not just machines.

Here's another way of looking at it. Replace "pro-active" with "indirect" if you wish - I think it works, and may even provide a much cleaner argument.

The emotional center

2: pro-active (asserts self to reinforce sense of self - "I define myself by how loving I am" - often rejects their *dependent* side, which is why they don't belong in that category) - goes toward independent as stress reduces
3: dependent (upon others to reinforce sense of self) - that's WHY they're "pro-active" upon the environment, BTW - to get praise.
4: independent (turned inward to reinforce sense of self) - goes toward pro-active as stress increases *Thank you, Becca, for realizing our basic emotional independence. Fours are, generally, the least-understood people.

The thinking center

5: independent ("live in their minds" - Condon)
6: dependent (upon others for guidance)
7: pro-active ("lively wit") - an extroverted kind of thinking (I don't know if it's really spelled "extraverted," but I'm NOT writing it that way. Ugh!)

The "instinctive" center (I HATE the word "instinctual," if you're wondering why I don't use it, even though it would seem to make better sense.)

8: independent (I am boss - nobody controls me)
9: dependent (out of touch with instincts - lives through others)
1: pro-active (channels instincts - anger - into "constructive criticism")

I'll read Becca's treatise more closely, and debate it more closely - some other time.

Follow Ups:

Re: This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone Hunter Brooks 21:17:21 2/16/98 (7)
- Re: This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone Derf 21:23:36 2/16/98 (6)
  - Re: This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone Hunter Brooks 22:19:47 2/16/98 (5)
    - Re: This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone Derf 23:05:25 2/16/98 (4)
      - Re: This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone Hunter Brooks 15:55:59 2/17/98 (2)
        
        Warning: very short message Derf 21:04:26 2/17/98 (1)
        
        Apology for previous post and then the whole little "but I was right!" complex. Hunter Brooks 18:00:44 2/18/98 (0)
      - Re: This is just a start - I'm not trying to write anything in stone John DiFool (4w5) 00:51:43 2/17/98 (0)

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Comments:
: Frankly, I have trouble with the three categories (especially the "pro-active" category) because they describes what a type DOES, not the type's motivation for doing so. We're not just machines. : Here's another way of looking at it. Replace "pro-active" with "indirect" if you wish - I think it works, and may even provide a much cleaner argument. : The emotional center : 2: pro-active (asserts self to reinforce sense of self - "I define myself by how loving I am" - often rejects their *dependent* side, which is why they don't belong in that category) - goes toward independent as stress reduces : 3: dependent (upon others to reinforce sense of self) - that's WHY they're "pro-active" upon the environment, BTW - to get praise. : 4: independent (turned inward to reinforce sense of self) - goes toward pro-active as stress increases *Thank you, Becca, for realizing our basic emotional independence. Fours are, generally, the least-understood people. : The thinking center : 5: independent ("live in their minds" - Condon) : 6: dependent (upon others for guidance) : 7: pro-active ("lively wit") - an extroverted kind of thinking (I don't know if it's really spelled "extraverted," but I'm NOT writing it that way. Ugh!) : The "instinctive" center (I HATE the word "instinctual," if you're wondering why I don't use it, even though it would seem to make better sense.) : 8: independent (I am boss - nobody controls me) : 9: dependent (out of touch with instincts - lives through others) : 1: pro-active (channels instincts - anger - into "constructive criticism") : I'll read Becca's treatise more closely, and debate it more closely - some other time.

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