Posted by Peter on May 01, 1999 at 09:29:52:
In Reply to: Re: When you die ... posted by Matches on April 30, 1999 at 23:10:18:
> As far as agnosticism, I don't find any difference between atheism and agnosticism. Say you and a friend are looking out at the ocean, and he points out and says, "Do you see that boat out there with the white sail?" If you don't see the boat, then you don't see the boat.
> BUT, to put a greater perspective on it.... If you and your friend are stranded out in the middle of the ocean, floating around in your ... and your friend says, "Is that a sailboat out there?" Even if you can't quite see it and aren't sure if your friend is right or just imagining things, wouldn't you try to swim towards the boat? It seems like some of you are content to float around and get eaten by a shark or some such nasty sea monster.
Well, I'm not sure about _all_ atheists/agnostics/unclassifiables, but for a typical 5w4 (At last - we're back on topic!) agnostic-tending-towards-atheist with a BSc in making life difficult for himself and everyone around him and a PhD in being a superior little so-and-so, I can explain a bit.
It's not about which set of actions have the best consequences for us, it's about the truth - well OK, it's about The Truth - ie our own thinking, which may or may not coincide with the real truth... Granted, it probably would be a better strategy to go and swim - even if there is no boat, at least you're doing something and not just waiting to be eaten alive. But... there are principles at stake here. A 5's intellectual code is as precious to him as a 1's moral code, and this has important consequences where religion is involved.
In terms of boat-chasing, you can just say, "There probably isn't a boat there, but I'll try anyway because it's my best hope", and you can maintain that position whilst you keep swimming. With religion - well, at least with Christianity (as I see it) - you can't really do that. You can swim a bit of the way to get a closer look, but there comes a point where you can't get any closer without deliberately altering your beliefs. And this is _very_ hard for a strong 5w4 to do for any 'pragmatic' reason - especially when the intellectual stakes are as high as they are in religion.
From time to time I wish that this could be different - that I could just say 'Oh, *** it', and swim through the 'faith barrier' (to take a recent example, Amanda's latest post triggered a moment like that for me) regardless. There are times when I worry that my 'intellectual convictions' are just a way of protecting myself - if I were to convert, people (including my Dad) _would_ ask awkward questions, and my arguing skills aren't that good. Or that I'm just being an entranced 5w4 and being difficult - this can feel very real to me, and it leaves me seething with an inner rage at the thought of it...
Peter, bringing things vaugely back on topic, and reaching for the old self-deprecating humour tactic...
P.S. The 'It's the most pragmatic option' arguament is number two on my Top Three Arguaments That Are Guaranteed To Irk Me list (no offense to those who use them, though). Number Three is the good old Arguament From Design and Number One is the 'stuff exists, so someone must have created it' arguament.