Posted by PseudoName on June 30, 1999 at 10:22:13:
In Reply to: Re: Does dysfunction mask type? posted by Ryan on June 29, 1999 at 23:26:40:
Ryan, calm down. It's true I have not answered your posts. You pissed me off by using me to expound and to renew arguments with Dave. Don't deny it, you know it's true. Be that as it may, I am no angel and have been known to pull the nasty trick or two myself. Probably have done so in this forum.
First, that you have passion and the courage of your convictions, is marvelous. Second, I think you make several good points, however I have not finished thinking and studying. Therefore will not talk about my ideas until I have more than the embryonic synthesis of this thing.
Suffice to say that, to the extent that my so-limited understanding of the enneagram and the human psyche makes it possible, I see Dave's point of view, I see yours, etc. In other words, I'm keeping an open mind.
Love &
Pseudo (...I love this particular fake name. Isn't it fun?)
> Pseudo,
> This is not the point I'm making. I agree with Dave, Hal and others to an extent in saying that we need to incorporate other aspects of the enneagram points into our basic point. I'm not saying that we need to ignore the views of the other parts of the enneagram. What I'm saying is that the healthier we are, the more we will be like the other enneagram points. However, your primary type will still be predominant. It won't stick out so much though because it will be balanced by what you have learned from the other enneagram points. You will still be that primary enneagram type, though, because this is the driving force of your personality. I believe that if we were to "completely transcend type," as Dave and others argue, then we would lose all aspect of personality, and essentially not be human.
> Each enneagram point, including your primary one, has many good things about it, many bad ones. When you take qualities from the other parts of the enneagram, you will use these qualities in and of themselves, but you will also use them to enhance the good qualities of your primary enneagram type. A 5 will understand much more as he or she incorporates qualities of the types that are adjacent to them. Understanding will come more naturally, and be less of an effort to the 5, but it will still be the 5's primary strength, and always will be, in my opinion. At very healthy levels, a 5 may have more good 4 or 6 qualities than the average 4 or 6, for instance, but the 5 will also be an even more powerful 5. And, the 5 traits will not stick out so much. The 5 will seem like a much more "integrated" person.
> And I do believe this development occurs in an adjacent fashion. This is what a wing type is, in my opinion. It's the type whose good qualities we have developed second most compared to the qualities of our own type. As a 5w4, for instance, my strength is in 5 qualites, but I also have considerable development in the 4 area. My 6 side may be a little weaker (something Dave suggested before I need to develop, I agree), but the way I would do that is by symbolically "integrating" myself more towards 8, as Riso states. If I begin to assert myself and realize I have what it takes to be a force in life, then my 6 wing will develop more naturally and I will become a more integrated person. This is difficult to do, of course, and is definitely what I would classify as "work" on my part. Once I do this, I can develop the good qualities of the 3, the 7 and so on around the enneagram (probably never get that far :), but all of these qualities will enhance my essential 5-ness, because that is how I personally orient myself. I do not believe that we need to divorce ourselves from our types to achieve peace and happiness. I don't classify this as "transcending" type, but rather "subsuming" TYPES. At the pinnacle, in my opinion, is not "one perfect person," but rather 9 perfect people, each showing how great each of the individual enneagram types can be (even being this far developed is probably impossible, though, but I have no real idea of this). What is essential, though, is realizing that enneagram types=personality. And all humans have personality. A good example of a near-perfect 1-type is Jesus, who had a 2 wing, and had fairly good development all along the enneagram, if you believe what the authors of the Bible write. My opinions about the essential humanity of Jesus may be a bit blasphemous, however, and I believe that Jesus was not a perfect 1 but "near-perfect." I really don't think perfection is possible in a human.
> And why do I believe this? Because each enneagram type copes differently in order to survive and "prosper." Some of these are quite contradictory methods depending on the type. Motivation-wise, a 5's coping strategy is almost completely different than a 1's or a 9's. How could a person who no longer had an enneagram type choose between these contradictory strategies? You could argue that the perfect individual would automatically know which strategy to choose, but this would make that individual an individual without preference, and thus without personality. If I, as a 5 could arbitrarily chose a 1 strategy of coping, this would mean I would lose my 5 personality. I'd be more than human, and a being who is extremely boring and lacking in focus compared to humanity.
> > So, while I do not define types as dysfunctional, that does not make me against integration of the other types. I am not 100% against what Dave believes. I just have some beliefs about the limitations of the human brain, and both the biological and sociological inability to transcend type is one of those limitations. > Ryan