Re: Clarity through extremes

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> > The dog comparison was just my way of going to the extreme to make my point clearer. Of course, many will react emotionally to the insult, but others, especially dog owners, will understand my view of empathy. As to bitterness, I am watching a 2 in all her glory disinigrate and I am probably venting some of that experience here. 2s are really interesting. The duplicity of their wanting/needing to help and their selfish motives in offering their help strikes me as really insincere, unless of course the 2 works for me, then I can put up with the flattery and extra help. When it's a friendship, there are two many strings attached that can't easily be cut. > Ed, definitely not a 2 > Good questions, IMHO. First of all, the question about twos being "empathic". I see it that when a 2 is healthy, s/he is empathic--meaning there are good intentions. When unhealthy, the ability to connect to others' moods or feelings doesn't go away, but the motivation and reasons for doing it...I wouldn't call it "empathy" because it's such a positive word and there isn't nothing much positive about unhealthy twos. > > About the ability to feel others' feelings. It isn't about ESP, telepathy or anything else. It's just intuitively (Derf, if you're reading this, in the dictionary sense ;) knowing what the other is feeling. Mostly reading body language, hearing changes in voice, word selection, pauses, ever so tiny changes in facial expressions and so on. It's much more difficult on a webboard, but even here what seems to be the main point, what words are emphasized and so on. Besides that (sorry all fours!) feelings aren't that unique to people. Everyone has all feelings and you just sort of have and idea what some situation makes someone feel, check (this is all somewhat unconscious) if it seems to be so and go on from there. We can't never feel *exactly* what someone else feels, but even deep understanding and someone caring is more you usually need. (I've been at the receiving end, too) > > Bev, those two *S* sound unhealthy. They think they know what's good for you, that's not empathy, since they are NOT connected to your feelings. It's one way how twos disintergrate to eight, we think we're so damn good and caring we can impose ourselves on others. Actually I think it's more of a 2w3 trait, at least in me my 1 wing makes me very aware of that and I become unhealthy in other ways, I think I show the low traits of eight more. (Maybe just because I'm a man with a personal history of having to appear like one, eight traits are more familiar to me) > > Anyways, if they were healthy and genuinely empathic, they'd ask you how you feel. Or if they can help you. I think the ultimate sign of a healthy two is that s/he gives a possibility that s/he can't help you. That is, "I want to help you but if you don't need my help, I'll go away." > > My point is that NO, twos aren't necessarily good to you, even though they might appear so. > > Ed, > > a relationship with a less healthy two? I could write a similar opinion of sevens. Not all twos are like that. Btw, I think you did a terrific job in explaining how it's possible to "know" the others feelings, but I wouldn't think I'd make a good dog...*WOOF WOOF!* Nope, doesn't sound right. *L* > > Seriously, anyone unhealthy is a pain to be with, no matter what the type is. > > Ronnie, definitely a 2w1

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