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Re: J vs. P (MBTI) language habit differences

Re: J vs. P (MBTI) language habit differences

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Posted by Cecil on September 04, 1999 at 16:41:18:

In Reply to: Re: 3 (& a mini defense lesson for all my listeners/clickers) posted by Tiggy on September 04, 1999 at 15:40:32:

First, please see Myers-Brigg Type Indicator web search pages for the J/P difference for an excellent background on what I am about to expound upon:

Tiggy:> You see Cecil. (See my message on the other board re your 'marking of my essay'.

Cecil: I have.

Tiggy: People don't like it when you tell them what you think in a way that closes the situation.

Cecil: Correction. YOU and other unaware and/or unappreciative P's don't care for the way J's sound when they speak.

This is how people who normally Extravert their "J" (MBTI) speak. They speak 'direct'. You must be a "P" who gets easily offended by it. I, too, amd a "P" who USED to get as offended like you, but after having to come to accepting that the "J" way of speaking so directly and succintly with a "closure" feeling to it is a valid way of speaking to many people, I've begun to consciously incorporate their mannerisms to 'balance' my opposite 'natural' preference, which, like I said is the same as yours.

My advice for YOU is to try including as opposed to eradicating the "J" way of speaking, that is, start using "I" yourself. "J"'s speak more "offense-oriented", "P"'s speak more "defense-oriented". P's introvert the subject, thereby eliminating the identity of who is the active commander and who is the passive recipient.

You must have low tolerance for the J's in your life who must have low tolerance for P's like you and I should we defy them and assume our natural way of speaking (MBTI Type Preference), the P way (Introverting our J) should reign superior to theirs.

Tiggy: Like because you think it, it must be the ultimate truth.

Cecil: Yes, exactly. That is how J's speak. Whenever we structure our senteces like they do, we will appear to either 1)offend uneducated/unappreciative P's or 2)earn the respect of J's who appreciate and love people who sound direct, authoritative, and judgemental.

Tiggy: That's why to say, 'I disagree' is pompous, it assumes a false dignity, too much emphasis on the 'I'.

Cecil: Again, Js (EJ)s speak with clear subject and object (NOUNs).

Tiggy: One's inclined to say, 'And who are you?' or 'So what'.

Cecil: And Ps speak with introverted judgment, therfore using 'submerged' subject and object identities, such as "one", "we", "they", "it" (PRONOUN).
The introverted judgment assumes more a 'proto-type' identity language usage pattern. Extrverted judgment goes above and out into the external environment assuming more 'crytallized solid' more detailed identity. That's why J's go bonkers when they can't specify the 5 w's: who, what, where, when, why, yet, P's are satified with whoever, whatever, wherever, whnever. P's don't "need" to specify it anymore. P's don't need 'limits' like J's do. J's are not satisfied with answers that end with the "-ever".

Tiggy: its like you're saying your so important we'd better all sit up and take notice because your such an authority and the final arbiter, the master has spoken.

Cecil: Right, Js method of speaking offends Ps, but satisfies Js.

Tiggy:> Maybe it's just a way of talking that you've picked up and you don't think that way at all but that's how it comes across.

Cecil: Yes, I have CONSCIOUSLY adapted J's method of speaking to 'upgrade' my own.

Tiggy: And the Enneagram books and teachers all stress not to use it to tell other people what they are.

Cecil: Sure, if you're a P, you'll like that. But if you're trying to persuade a J, it's necessary to drop the "it", "-ever", "one", pronoun with no limit habit, and instead put some more J inot your speech, by 'upgrading' your pronouns into nouns, such as using 'you' and 'I' , specific names, and so on.
>

Tiggy: Sorry to be critical, Cecil, but its an unfortunate mannerism.

Cecil: Don't worry about it. Yes, it is unfortunate, until we learn to see that the language serves a good purpose. It's best to speak J-like with J's and clearly emphasize the who, what, when, where, and speak P-like with other P's and de-emphasize the liability-laden nouns by 'clouding' their true identities with our good old heavy-pro-noun laden language habits.

J's are good for clarifying liabilities and limits.
P's are good for saving face, and 'clouding' (covering up, spreading around) the liabilities of the nouns so as to keep the identities hidden. P language make the best face-savers and liability-cover-uppers.
J language make lousy face-savers, but excellent offense liability clarifiers.
>
Cecil

Follow Ups:

Re: J vs. P (MBTI) language habit differences Tiggy - and I disagree 17:45:54 9/04/99 (0)
Re: J vs. P (MBTI) language habit differences Ronnie 17:17:52 9/04/99 (1)
- Re: J vs. P (MBTI) language habit differences Summer 14:04:51 9/07/99 (0)

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> First, please see Myers-Brigg Type Indicator web search pages for the J/P difference for an excellent background on what I am about to expound upon: > Tiggy:> You see Cecil. (See my message on the other board re your 'marking of my essay'. > Cecil: I have. > Tiggy: People don't like it when you tell them what you think in a way that closes the situation. > Cecil: Correction. YOU and other unaware and/or unappreciative P's don't care for the way J's sound when they speak. > This is how people who normally Extravert their "J" (MBTI) speak. They speak 'direct'. You must be a "P" who gets easily offended by it. I, too, amd a "P" who USED to get as offended like you, but after having to come to accepting that the "J" way of speaking so directly and succintly with a "closure" feeling to it is a valid way of speaking to many people, I've begun to consciously incorporate their mannerisms to 'balance' my opposite 'natural' preference, which, like I said is the same as yours. > My advice for YOU is to try including as opposed to eradicating the "J" way of speaking, that is, start using "I" yourself. "J"'s speak more "offense-oriented", "P"'s speak more "defense-oriented". P's introvert the subject, thereby eliminating the identity of who is the active commander and who is the passive recipient. > You must have low tolerance for the J's in your life who must have low tolerance for P's like you and I should we defy them and assume our natural way of speaking (MBTI Type Preference), the P way (Introverting our J) should reign superior to theirs. > > Tiggy: Like because you think it, it must be the ultimate truth. > Cecil: Yes, exactly. That is how J's speak. Whenever we structure our senteces like they do, we will appear to either 1)offend uneducated/unappreciative P's or 2)earn the respect of J's who appreciate and love people who sound direct, authoritative, and judgemental. > Tiggy: That's why to say, 'I disagree' is pompous, it assumes a false dignity, too much emphasis on the 'I'. > Cecil: Again, Js (EJ)s speak with clear subject and object (NOUNs). > > Tiggy: One's inclined to say, 'And who are you?' or 'So what'. > Cecil: And Ps speak with introverted judgment, therfore using 'submerged' subject and object identities, such as "one", "we", "they", "it" (PRONOUN). > The introverted judgment assumes more a 'proto-type' identity language usage pattern. Extrverted judgment goes above and out into the external environment assuming more 'crytallized solid' more detailed identity. That's why J's go bonkers when they can't specify the 5 w's: who, what, where, when, why, yet, P's are satified with whoever, whatever, wherever, whnever. P's don't "need" to specify it anymore. P's don't need 'limits' like J's do. J's are not satisfied with answers that end with the "-ever". > > Tiggy: its like you're saying your so important we'd better all sit up and take notice because your such an authority and the final arbiter, the master has spoken. > Cecil: Right, Js method of speaking offends Ps, but satisfies Js. > Tiggy:> Maybe it's just a way of talking that you've picked up and you don't think that way at all but that's how it comes across. > Cecil: Yes, I have CONSCIOUSLY adapted J's method of speaking to 'upgrade' my own. > > Tiggy: And the Enneagram books and teachers all stress not to use it to tell other people what they are. > Cecil: Sure, if you're a P, you'll like that. But if you're trying to persuade a J, it's necessary to drop the "it", "-ever", "one", pronoun with no limit habit, and instead put some more J inot your speech, by 'upgrading' your pronouns into nouns, such as using 'you' and 'I' , specific names, and so on. > > > Tiggy: Sorry to be critical, Cecil, but its an unfortunate mannerism. > Cecil: Don't worry about it. Yes, it is unfortunate, until we learn to see that the language serves a good purpose. It's best to speak J-like with J's and clearly emphasize the who, what, when, where, and speak P-like with other P's and de-emphasize the liability-laden nouns by 'clouding' their true identities with our good old heavy-pro-noun laden language habits. > J's are good for clarifying liabilities and limits. > P's are good for saving face, and 'clouding' (covering up, spreading around) the liabilities of the nouns so as to keep the identities hidden. P language make the best face-savers and liability-cover-uppers. > J language make lousy face-savers, but excellent offense liability clarifiers. > > > Cecil

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