Re: J vs. P (MBTI) language habit differences

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> > Cecil: I have. > > Tiggy: People don't like it when you tell them what you think in a way that closes the situation. > > Cecil: Correction. YOU and other unaware and/or unappreciative P's don't care for the way J's sound when they speak. > Cecil, how come it's possible this extravert J doesn't like that style either and doesn't think it sounds like J? > > This is how people who normally Extravert their "J" (MBTI) speak. They speak 'direct'. You must be a "P" who gets easily offended by it. I, too, amd a "P" who USED to get as offended like you, but after having to come to accepting that the "J" way of speaking so directly and succintly with a "closure" feeling to it is a valid way of speaking to many people, I've begun to consciously incorporate their mannerisms to 'balance' my opposite 'natural' preference, which, like I said is the same as yours. > No, it's not the way. You're confusing the manner of speaking with what's actually being said. Besides, you can't become what you aren't, it's always better to improve what you have than becoming something else. > > My advice for YOU is to try including as opposed to eradicating the "J" way of speaking, that is, start using "I" yourself. "J"'s speak more "offense-oriented", "P"'s speak more "defense-oriented". P's introvert the subject, thereby eliminating the identity of who is the active commander and who is the passive recipient. > > You must have low tolerance for the J's in your life who must have low tolerance for P's like you and I should we defy them and assume our natural way of speaking (MBTI Type Preference), the P way (Introverting our J) should reign superior to theirs. > > > > Tiggy: Like because you think it, it must be the ultimate truth. > > Cecil: Yes, exactly. That is how J's speak. Whenever we structure our senteces like they do, we will appear to either 1)offend uneducated/unappreciative P's or 2)earn the respect of J's who appreciate and love people who sound direct, authoritative, and judgemental. > LOVE? I hate judgemental people more than a dead dog's rotten guts. Since when has J meant judgemental? It means Judging and it is a different thing. Again, you're confusing the style with what's being said and why > > Tiggy: That's why to say, 'I disagree' is pompous, it assumes a false dignity, too much emphasis on the 'I'. > > Cecil: Again, Js (EJ)s speak with clear subject and object (NOUNs). > > But you often don't--are you seeing the difference already? I'm judging what you have said here yourself, you assume people to be something and are judgemental to your own assumption. Definitely a different thing. > > Tiggy: One's inclined to say, 'And who are you?' or 'So what'. > > Cecil: And Ps speak with introverted judgment, therfore using 'submerged' subject and object identities, such as "one", "we", "they", "it" (PRONOUN). > > The introverted judgment assumes more a 'proto-type' identity language usage pattern. Extrverted judgment goes above and out into the external environment assuming more 'crytallized solid' more detailed identity. That's why J's go bonkers when they can't specify the 5 w's: who, what, where, when, why, yet, P's are satified with whoever, whatever, wherever, whnever. P's don't "need" to specify it anymore. P's don't need 'limits' like J's do. J's are not satisfied with answers that end with the "-ever". > At least you've come up with new grammar terms...whatever terms you use and whoever you are being judgemental against, it's still not the same thing as J, in whatever circumstances. > > > Tiggy: its like you're saying your so important we'd better all sit up and take notice because your such an authority and the final arbiter, the master has spoken. > > Cecil: Right, Js method of speaking offends Ps, but satisfies Js. > Maybe, but you aren't speaking in the J method. You sound like a P trying to be a J, getting it wrong in the beginning and overdoing it really bad. > > > Tiggy:> Maybe it's just a way of talking that you've picked up and you don't think that way at all but that's how it comes across. > > Cecil: Yes, I have CONSCIOUSLY adapted J's method of speaking to 'upgrade' my own. > And yet you don't seem to have any idea how J's actually speak. You say I get mad at what you say, but shouldn't I be happy because I'm an extraverted J? Isn't there something a bit wrong there? > > > Tiggy: And the Enneagram books and teachers all stress not to use it to tell other people what they are. > > Cecil: Sure, if you're a P, you'll like that. But if you're trying to persuade a J, it's necessary to drop the "it", "-ever", "one", pronoun with no limit habit, and instead put some more J inot your speech, by 'upgrading' your pronouns into nouns, such as using 'you' and 'I' , specific names, and so on. > Cecil, you are an intelligent person. So how can you confuse using specific terms and pronouns with arrogantly, pompously, self-righteously and besserwisseringly telling people who they are? > > Tiggy: Sorry to be critical, Cecil, but its an unfortunate mannerism. > > Cecil: Don't worry about it. Yes, it is unfortunate, until we learn to see that the language serves a good purpose. It's best to speak J-like with J's and clearly emphasize the who, what, when, where, and speak P-like with other P's and de-emphasize the liability-laden nouns by 'clouding' their true identities with our good old heavy-pro-noun laden language habits. > It's best to speak in the manner you're most comfortable with and not try to become someone else (which is, btw, a common four habit) > > J's are good for clarifying liabilities and limits. > > P's are good for saving face, and 'clouding' (covering up, spreading around) the liabilities of the nouns so as to keep the identities hidden. P language make the best face-savers and liability-cover-uppers. > > J language make lousy face-savers, but excellent offense liability clarifiers. > > > > > Cecil > So, Cecil, why do you think you have to embody the worst qualities of J? Besides, in the way you post you don't appear to be a J, you sound like a P acting against herself. > Ronnie (ENFJ)

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